Connecticut School Massacre - pass the ammunition

[Pluto]

220 years ago, the government ensured that for the security of the state every adult male ought to have a gun.

Chaz, you don't know a damn thing about the U.S. Constitution or its Second Amendment. The reason for the right to bear arms is not for the security of the state, but is in fact the ultimate defense by citizens against the state if the government becomes oppressive.

It maybe started out as that, but like everything with time it morphs. It works on many levels. The state can legitimately shoot you.

[Impenitent]

we the people are the state

shoot everyone

-Imp

[Kayla]

it is the gun nuts who are most in favor of the state being oppressive

the idea that the gun toting populace will rise against an oppressive government is as the british people say bollocks

[Kayla]

America must be an exceedingly dangerous country to live in.

its not

some states have lower homicide rates than socialist countries like canada or finland - and some of those states love guns as much as texas - i am thinking of utah and montana here

[Kayla]

or shoot magnificent deer.

actually properly cooked groundhog tastes a lot better than venison

[Kayla]

the man will usually win because the man is usually (but not always) bigger and stronger

women have better reaction time and higher pain tolerance

problem is girls are taught to be nice and to not fight and these inhibitions against violence work against them

i am short and skinny and on the few occasions where i got into physical confrontations with normal or above average sized males i kicked their asses

[bobevenson]

it is the gun nuts who are most in favor of the state being oppressive

the idea that the gun toting populace will rise against an oppressive government is as the british people say bollocks

Hopefully, you'll learn something about the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution before you graduate from high school, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Kayla]

bob have you been paying attention

the same people who are seriously pro gun are also - for most part - in favor of giving the police more powers - in favor of rolling back on womens rights - in favor of torture - in favor of the president having more powers as long as he is white - in favor of heavily armed federal thugs taking away peoples cancer medication that they need to be able to eat without throwing up

yes there is an odd gun nut who is also a libertarian and is opposed to womens rights but otherwise the above does not apply - but most gun nuts are heavy duty republicans

[bobevenson]

As economist Thomas Sowell said in a recent column, "The key fallacy of so-called gun control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available."

[Kayla]

so what accounts for the disproportionate number of shooting deaths in the USA

[bobevenson]

so what accounts for the disproportionate number of shooting deaths in the USA

Probably like "Girls Gone Wild," you've got "People Gone Wild," courtesy of the U.S. government.

[thedoc]

so what accounts for the disproportionate number of shooting deaths in the USA

The USA has the highest proportion of shooting homicides compared to homicide by other means, (except for Columbia) and the USA has, by far the highest proportion of guns per person as indicated by these maps, (there are 3 different maps with different information),

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... icides-map

The maps are sometimes slow to load, you might need to try several times.

However the USA does not have the highest homicide rate compaired to several other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_o ... e_rate.png

If you compare this map to the others you will see that some of the countries with the lowest avalability of guns have the highest homicide rate. Russia, Brazil, much of central Africa, and several others have almost no access to guns but somehow the people still manage to murder each other. Brazil, and a few others seem to be odd with a low proportion of guns yet a high homicide rate and a high proportion by firearms. Russia and central Africa have a low proportion of guns, a high homocide rate and very low rate by firearms which seems to sound right.

[Gee]

This has been a very interesting thread, and I would like to thank the members, who provided videos and documentaries that added to the discussion. It was all very enlightening, but I especially enjoyed the video provided by Notvacka, as that was a perspective that I had not yet seen.

For myself, my family has always had guns in the house--even when the children were little. Of course, when they were little, we only kept hunting rifles (the ammunition was kept in the cabin up north for hunting season) and black powder pistols for target practice at the range. It is a little difficult for a child to measure the black powder, cut a wad, then put the powder, wad, and ball into the barrel and tamp it all down before putting on the cap so the pistol will fire. I never worried about having loaded guns in the house when they were little.

When my children were of age, they enrolled in a Hunter's Safety course before being allowed to go hunting with their Dad. They all learned to respect guns. Here is something that you might find interesting; when my son was 14 years old, he came to me and asked if he could put his rifles in my closet. Prior to this, they were kept in his closet because it was his responsibility to clean and maintain them. I said, "Of course, but why do you want to move them?" He explained that his friends had noticed them and asked to take them out and go shooting. He said, "Mom. They think that guns are toys!" His friends had no education regarding guns, so I am afraid that I have to agree with the NRA, that if you are going to have guns, you need to also have education about them.

Of course, some might say that we should just do away with guns. Fine. So we pass a law that says that everyone has to give up their guns, and all of the law abiding citizens do so. What about the citizens, who do not do so? Do we do a sweep of all houses? Do we stop them from being manufactured or sold in the US? Is anyone really dumb enough to think that this would work? We can't stop the sales, we won't stop the manufacturing, and if the government tried to invade and search people's home, it would start a riot. I'm a bit of a realist, so if the bad guys are going to have guns, I think I should too.

When I was little, in the 50s there was a gun in almost every home. Guns and rifles were tools that were used for protection, safety, to hunt, and for war--and almost every man was trained to use them. Now there are many homes where there are no guns, where guns are feared and banned. Guns are for movies, entertainment, games, and represent power--and few people are trained to use them.

Do you know what happens when you take a loaded gun and aggressively point it at someone? What happens is that you gain power, and whatever you feared, now fears you. You immediately acquire their undivided attention, their absolute respect, and their fear. So, in a case where the person with the gun is not robbing a bank, or burglarizing a house, what is that person trying to gain? It would seem to me that they are trying to gain attention, respect, and power. So, the question is, why would they feel the need to do this?

It has also not escaped my notice that schools are not the only place where this happens. There have been attacks at schools, churches, and hospitals; and attacks on doctors and police officers. These places are examples of where we should feel that we are listened to, respected, and protected. Why would anyone feel the need to empower themselves in regard to these places?

Also, it should be considered that when the pharmaceutical companies came out with their new "cures" for mental illness, we took that as an opportunity to close many of our mental facilities. So the statistics on prisoners should be adjusted to consider the mentally ill that we now incarcerate in prisons, for a more accurate statistic. Also note that these "cures" always effect some change, but that change is not always good. Because our mental facilities are closed, and no one is closely studying the patients, sometimes the "cure" makes the person much worse.

Gee

[chaz wyman]

NB: There are 92k public schools in the US.

[thedoc]

NB: There are 92k public schools in the US.

How many police officers do we have? Do we have them protect our schools or give tickets for 10 MPH over the speed limit? Or hunt down violent criminals?