Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by chaz wyman »

sushil_yadav wrote:Man is not the only inhabitant of this planet......This planet is home to millions of other species too.....It is not the play ground of the human species which can do anything it wants.....Welfare of millions of other species has to be kept in mind.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems on earth.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.

Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable.....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.

Millions of other species destroy environment only for food.

Human species is the only lunatic species that has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods and services.

One does not need to do research for 10,000 years to know what is wrong with human lifestyle.....It is so very obvious and crystal clear.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Agrarian society is a form of Industrial Society. It has sustained and enabled industrialisation, and they co-depend. Without some mechanisation; such as a simple plough or ard. And to make a plough requires industry.

In a hunter-gatherer society, when you misuse the environment gathering or hunting too much you get immediate negative feedback. You reap the consequences of your abuse immediately. This teaches careful use and moderate exploitation. If you are greedy you suffer for it.

As soon as a seed is planted, you have to invent the horror of ownership of land and other forms of static property. You have to stop moving and protect the land, build houses and try to convince hunter-gatherers that you have privileged access to the land you have planted.
As your society grows, h-g groups are pushed out of their lands, and you begin to encroach on other agrarian groups.
Pretty soon conflict and protection become necessary features of life. A warrior class grows who take over the running of society. The worker in the field is enslaved and lives only to work under the yoke of the new ruling class. Religion is then used to justify that leadership and freedom has vanished. There followed a growing exploitation of the environment to the point of utter destruction. Where this happened first in the Levant is now a desert wilderness that stretches across the Levant through North Africa, which as seen a massive growth of desert over thousands of years. The forests of Europe have been slashed and burned. But in North America the forests are now at 5% of their original size - this has been done most in the last 250 years.

THis has been the case from 10,000 bce to today, except that in the last 150 years in the West, slavery has been abolished; social welfare and fair wages have been instigated; medicine and sanitation have improved and extended lives.
Ordinary people are now reaping the benefits of science and other forms of learning, and are now also shrugging off the yoke of religion. We are now more informed, knowledgeable, and aware of the earth and the far universe.

The trick is not to return to hunting a gathering, but to figure out how to keep the recent benefits of civilisation but to keep the earth and its environment save.
chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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sushil_yadav wrote:The solution / answer has been known for millions of years.

You save environment the way it was saved for millions of years .......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter......Production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately.
Would that be before, or after they take your computer away from you?
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.

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If someone is being shot repeatedly do people ask what needs to be done to save him???

If someone is being stabbed repeatedly do people ask what needs to be done to save him???

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity.......So it is very clear and obvious that Industrial Activity needs to be stopped immediately.

It is insane to seek a solution after creating the problem......If you don't create the problem the solution happens automatically.

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Industrial Society has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems on earth.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.

Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable.....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.

We cannot save environment by destroying more of it.....We cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.



Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by chaz wyman »

sushil_yadav wrote:Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.
]
Clearly you have no interest in a discussion.
I feel an unsubscribe coming on.
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

You are free to read or not read.

You are free to participate or not participate.

Discussion is good only if it is limited in content.

Endless hair splitting is a disease.

Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.

Billions of Pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another Harmful Waste created by Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

Discussion cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment for millions of years through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

If discussion could solve global problems this world would have become a paradise long ago with the help of trillions of pages of discussion......Whereas the reality is all the discussion is making it more and more insane moment by moment.

I come from a country where "thinking" was considered the biggest obstacle in making the mind peaceful.....The fields of yoga and meditation were developed to stop thinking and achieve peaceful states of mind.
sushil_yadav wrote:
The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.
Last edited by sushil_yadav on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by chaz wyman »

sushil_yadav wrote:You are free to read or not read.

Agrarian society is a form of Industrial Society. It has sustained and enabled industrialisation, and they co-depend. Without some mechanisation; such as a simple plough or ard. And to make a plough requires industry.

In a hunter-gatherer society, when you misuse the environment gathering or hunting too much you get immediate negative feedback. You reap the consequences of your abuse immediately. This teaches careful use and moderate exploitation. If you are greedy you suffer for it.

As soon as a seed is planted, you have to invent the horror of ownership of land and other forms of static property. You have to stop moving and protect the land, build houses and try to convince hunter-gatherers that you have privileged access to the land you have planted.
As your society grows, h-g groups are pushed out of their lands, and you begin to encroach on other agrarian groups.
Pretty soon conflict and protection become necessary features of life. A warrior class grows who take over the running of society. The worker in the field is enslaved and lives only to work under the yoke of the new ruling class. Religion is then used to justify that leadership and freedom has vanished. There followed a growing exploitation of the environment to the point of utter destruction. Where this happened first in the Levant is now a desert wilderness that stretches across the Levant through North Africa, which as seen a massive growth of desert over thousands of years. The forests of Europe have been slashed and burned. But in North America the forests are now at 5% of their original size - this has been done most in the last 250 years.

THis has been the case from 10,000 bce to today, except that in the last 150 years in the West, slavery has been abolished; social welfare and fair wages have been instigated; medicine and sanitation have improved and extended lives.
Ordinary people are now reaping the benefits of science and other forms of learning, and are now also shrugging off the yoke of religion. We are now more informed, knowledgeable, and aware of the earth and the far universe.

The trick is not to return to hunting a gathering, but to figure out how to keep the recent benefits of civilisation but to keep the earth and its environment safe.
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

I didn't talk about going back to hunter_gatherer society.
sushil_yadav wrote:

Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by chaz wyman »

sushil_yadav wrote:I didn't talk about going back to hunter_gatherer society.
Maybe you should think about it.
We have been hunter/gatherers for 99% of our history. Even as recently as 500 years ago most of the world was still gathering its subsistence in this way.
The routes of industry start with the planting of the first seed.
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

..
When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.

Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.

Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

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A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.

Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

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When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.

When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.

Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.

Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.

The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.

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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.

An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.

Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
chaz wyman
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by chaz wyman »

As you are only willing to spew half baked ideas and have no intentions of engaging in a debate I will unsubscribe form this Thread.
I looks like you are talking to yourself.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by reasonvemotion »

Why don't you present your case to the government of India.

They are in dire need of an education program of mind and environment and in particular waste management.
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

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Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.

One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.

The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world will celebrate yet another New Year today.
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After destroying planet Earth.....After destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.

It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.

If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans, Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!

Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.

Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.

There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..

If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.

Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.

Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.

Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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henry quirk
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by henry quirk »

I ate pig this morning.

I'll probably eat cow at lunch (and again at dinner).

Multiple times during the day, I'll drink coffee (sourced in the labors of brown folks who are underpaid and over-worked).

My car (carrying me far and wide) will eat up a tank of gas between now and noon, tomorrow (and increase my 'carbon footprint' nicely).

My shotgun (a death tool made of wood and steel) will blast away (at my direction) several targets this weekend, each target explicitly, purposefully, man-shaped.

The Lorax spoke for the trees; I speak for petrol, steel, gunpowder, and the abattoir.

Industry (as endeavor, as livelihood, as thought process) is the prize and the lot of each.

Get used to it (or not...as you like...the quixotic has a place)...it ain't goin' nowhere.

*shrug*
Piltdownbrain
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by Piltdownbrain »

henry quirk wrote:I ate pig this morning.

I'll probably eat cow at lunch (and again at dinner).

Multiple times during the day, I'll drink coffee (sourced in the labors of brown folks who are underpaid and over-worked).

My car (carrying me far and wide) will eat up a tank of gas between now and noon, tomorrow (and increase my 'carbon footprint' nicely).

My shotgun (a death tool made of wood and steel) will blast away (at my direction) several targets this weekend, each target explicitly, purposefully, man-shaped.

The Lorax spoke for the trees; I speak for petrol, steel, gunpowder, and the abattoir.

Industry (as endeavor, as livelihood, as thought process) is the prize and the lot of each.

Get used to it (or not...as you like...the quixotic has a place)...it ain't goin' nowhere.

*shrug*
I agree completely Henry Quirk with the argument of irresistible necessity! To impose any restriction on happiness or the opportunity to survive with some ease is totalitarian, even if the environment is depleted in the process by 3 billion computers and cars. Do lemmings go on starvation strikes so that field mice can survive? Did Tyranosaurus hesitate before tearing the baby Brontysaurus from the clutches of its mother? And anyway, as Dawkins revealed, it is the all conquering gene which has defied cosmic annihilations, within the timespan of this small solar system with its average star, and are the 'Johnny come lately' sentimental ethics of an idealistic hominid really valuable as a proven policy? It's a little bit late for our commenter from India to apologise for exponential overpopulation, and I would prefer to remember the tiger in its ferocious glory dripping with blood and extinct than as a preserved exhibit in a zoo. The maneater is my friend because of its existentialism. The gene will ruthlessly impose its biological doctrine upon all species until the time of supernova, and what did politics really have to do with anything really?
*Starts skinning next-door neighbour's pet cat for Chinese vegetables and chicken gourmet dish*
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"the argument of irresistible necessity"

Post by henry quirk »

HA!

Not (exactly) my position, Pilt.

#

"*Starts skinning next-door neighbour's pet cat for Chinese vegetables and chicken gourmet dish*"

HA!

I'd eat that.
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