Religion has passed its 'use by' date.

[chaz wyman]

Ironically, whoever thought up the idea of a spiritual world to explain our place in the natural world, this person or people were the original scientists, the ones with curiosity and a sense of wonder. Unfortunately that meme turned viral and became a destructive force in humans, creating havoc and holding us back. Religion wasn’t born out of a ‘deep spiritual need’, it was born out of scientific curiosity. Now we have real science to explain our place in the universe, but we are left with the superstitious debris of that early desire to know ourselves i.e. those who remain satisfied with the earliest 'explanations' that our ancient ancestors came up with. These relics of fledgling humanity suppress the natural scientific curiosity that we all have. They are easily manipulated by unscrupulous and self-seeking religious leaders who want to hang on to their power base and keep their flock ignorant and superstitious. Our brains have evolved. Morality has never come from religion, we gave our concept of morality to religion. Religion has long since passed its 'use by' date. Humankind needs to get over it so we can all move forward.

So I am a drishtantoist.

Religion without god, is still religion.

[Felasco]

The opening post does a good job of summarizing the shallowness of religious understanding typical of philosophy forums in general, and internet atheist thought in particular.

The assumption typically is that religion is all about ideological assertions, and then those assertions are attacked.

Here's a simple experiment that will reveal the emptiness of this analysis.

Go to a Christian church on any typical Sunday. Closely observe what happens when the preacher gives his sermon. Are those in the pews leaning forward in their seats, eager to hear the latest intellectual analysis from the preacher?

No, they are not. They might have been leaning forward in their seats during the music part of the service, but now that the sermon has started they are thinking about the laundry they need to fold when they get home, and other such matters.

Point being, religion is not primarily an intellectual experience for most people. This is true no matter how much a philosophy forum poster may wish it were true.

What's happening in most of these threads is an attempt to reduce religion to the poster's own limited nerdboy perspective, so that the poster then feels capable of playing the Gotcha Game. It's college sophomore wanking at best, and usually not even that.

[thedoc]

If you don't like religion or don't want to participate, who cares. What is your point in railing at those who choose to believe. That you don't believe, OK.

[chaz wyman]

The opening post does a good job of summarizing the shallowness of religious understanding typical of philosophy forums in general, and internet atheist thought in particular.

The assumption typically is that religion is all about ideological assertions, and then those assertions are attacked.

Here's a simple experiment that will reveal the emptiness of this analysis.

Go to a Christian church on any typical Sunday. Closely observe what happens when the preacher gives his sermon. Are those in the pews leaning forward in their seats, eager to hear the latest intellectual analysis from the preacher?

No, they are not. They might have been leaning forward in their seats during the music part of the service, but now that the sermon has started they are thinking about the laundry they need to fold when they get home, and other such matters.

Point being, religion is not primarily an intellectual experience for most people. This is true no matter how much a philosophy forum poster may wish it were true.

What's happening in most of these threads is an attempt to reduce religion to the poster's own limited nerdboy perspective, so that the poster then feels capable of playing the Gotcha Game. It's college sophomore wanking at best, and usually not even that.

But what you say simply re-inforces the statement at the start of the thread. In the West the sell-by date has passed, and no one is really paying attention anymore. In the UK churches run empty; some have been turned into leisure centres; kindergartens; and car parks. Those that are still attended are attended by a handful of lost souls, old people, and the odd idealistic youth. Sermons are no longer relevant. (past their sell by date)

However, that is not the whole picture. Take a look at any Arabic city, when the call to prayer booms out over the rooftops. Many Mosques are full to overflowing. It is these countries where ignorance and fear still reign. Religion continues to justify the rule of the dictators, and where new democracies are growing, religion still has a way to press its views home. In Egypt President Mursi is busy trying to emulate Mubarek with the help of his religious buddies.
But change is a foot. Those that reject the Muslim Brotherhood are those that have been inspired by the west's secular approach to government.

Oh but wait --- you ain't listening.

[chaz wyman]

If you don't like religion or don't want to participate, who cares. What is your point in railing at those who choose to believe. That you don't believe, OK.

Religion still has a way of ruining the lives of those who do not participate.
Religion and its false understanding of the way the world is constructed influences scientific, social and political policy making.
There are 27 Bishops in the House of Lords, that do not need to seek election, they maintain an established church and think they have special rights to interpose their views in debates about abortion, scientific research funding, poverty, and much else besides. They represent no one but themselves, they are all men as the church runs a sex discrimination policy.
In the USA the religious right have far more power than is sensible of safe and theirs and other interests have helped cause 2 wars, whilst religious factional conflicts are the fuel of international terrorism.

That's the point.

[chaz wyman]

The latest census of the UK published today shows a marked decrease in people claiming to be "christian', by 13%, dropping to 33 million, that's around half - most of them old people. Attendance at church by the young is in free fall.

Those ticking 'no religion' has increased by 10% from 15% to 25%.

This is in the last 10 years alone.

[Negative SEO]

religion has passed its 'use by' date? tell that to people when mourning or rejoicing

[chaz wyman]

religion has passed its 'use by' date? tell that to people when mourning or rejoicing

Yes, I agree - that's the best time to tell them.