We are not alone..

[chaz wyman]

just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

Universal Expansion obviously. Everywhere is the centre of the Universe.
That's the point.
What is your explanation?

[thedoc]

(i think you mean 'is finite" not 'in finite")
.

Yep, I never claimed to be good at spelling, or typing.

I was not criticising, just helping out.

I knew that, just admiting one of my few deficiencies. (Don't ask my wife, her list is longer than mine.)

[thedoc]

Olbers Paradox ,,,that we should see a blanket of white in the night sky ,
because we don't Olber presumes it's because there isn't more ,
but this is clearly wrong , we see nearly to the point they think
is the center or point of origin for the bb,
but we can't see past that , and we know the stars are there ,
because we are talking about the other side of the bb ,
for those who believe such nonsense ,
explain why we don't see the other side , even if the universe were expanding
Olber thinks we should see them ,,,
There is another reason the big bang is busted ,
The map of stars , to look at a 3d image of the known universe,
if the bb were true , there would be a grouping or tightening of the clusters
the closer you got to the center , and they would be more sparce the further out you go .
But this is not the case , there is a even spread of galaxies throughout the universe , there is no pattern radiating out from a central point ,,,

There are several unwarrented assumptions here, Who is it that believes there is a center point to the Big Bang? Every cosmologist I have heard will explain that there is no center but the original speck that was the Big Bang was very small and very dense and that point itself expanded so everywhere is the center of the expansion. The Universe is evenly distributed because before the Big Band all the matter was in the point of matter and was evenly distributed because it was all packed so tightly together. Before the Big Bang there was only a very small point of matter that suddenly expanded into everything, it was not a point hanging in space, there was no space, no time, nothing but the point.

Looking at the very large scale distribution it is relatively even but as you look smaller there begins to be an uneven distribution of galaxies that seem to make up the 'wall' like a froth of soap bubbles that are surrounding vast underdense areas refered to as voids.

The aproximate age of 14 billion years is the limit of time that light or other signals have had to get here. The Universe is much larger than the 14 billion light year sphere because shortly after the start there was a peroid of super luminal expansion. Matter cannot move faster that c through space, but space is under no such restriction and can move faster than light and the matter and energy in that space is carried along with it. It is believed that at a certain distance the space is moving away from us faster than c so the light from that part of the universe will never reach us.

"explain why we don't see the other side "
The simple answer is that we do see on the other side of this hypothetical other side, first there is no center. We are in the Big Bang and the limit on how far we can see in the age of the Universe, we can only see the light that has had time to reach us.

[thedoc]

I would probably agree with that .
the point I tried to make was 14 billion is as far as we will ever be able to communicate with or see with our radio telescopes it would seem .
Unless we learn how to use nutrino's or something better ,
we are limited to how far light or a radio wave can travel .
So we could fairly confidently assume that there is no radio based civilization ,
that existed 14 billion years ago , and light years away ,
but the universe could be bursting with radio based civilizations right now,
but it will take a few billion years for us to get their signal ,
Question can we prove there would be much older civilizations ,???
Yes we can , the large number of old galaxies that exist at the far reaches of our view , proves that the universe is older than 13.7 billion years ,
10 billion years ago , there were thousands of old galaxies in the known universe , some old , "red and dead" you will find is a term given to
galaxies that have completed their life cycle , we see these ,
in 10 billion year old images of our universe ,, the bb is busted ,,!!!

Yes, there are "Old" galaxies, that long ago, that burned hot and fast and burned themselves out in only a few billion years. They were composed of Hydrogen with a little bit of Helium because that was all there was in the early universe. All the heavy elements were cooked up in the centers of stars by Nuclear Fussion, and those elements are part of our planet, and part of everyones bodies, because some of those stars blew up and spread those elements back out into space. Those early galaxies formed quickly and burned fast and they looked different than later galaxies. They were rough and ragged and did not appear to be as well organized as later galaxies.

[thedoc]

NO,,!!! ,,,The "observable" universe is 14 billion years old ,
because that is as far back as we can see ,
just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

The universe is aproximately 14 billion years old and that is how long light has had to get here. Light from farther out is still traveling to get here, the longer it goes the farther we will be able to see, in 1 billion years more, we will be able to see aproximately 15 billion light years.

[thedoc]

Striketh down any who believe with righteous conviction that we are the only lifeform within our universe.

"The Wow! signal was a strong narrowband radio signal detected by Jerry R. Ehman on August 15, 1977, while working on a SETI project at the Big Ear radio telescope of The Ohio State University then located at Ohio Wesleyan University's Perkins Observatory, Delaware, Ohio.[1] The signal bore expected hallmarks of potential non-terrestrial and non-Solar System origin. It lasted for the full 72-second duration that Big Ear observed it, but has not been detected again. The signal has been the subject of significant media attention.

Amazed at how closely the signal matched the expected signature of an interstellar signal in the antenna used, Ehman circled the signal on the computer printout and wrote the comment "Wow!" on its side. This comment became the name of the signal."

"Aliens Found In Ohio? The 'Wow!' Signal", by Robert Krulwich, NPR, May 29, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

There is perhaps more than one God? Or is it different suburbs of space have different Gods, Mayor like guardians of the area so to speak, regional Gods?

Surely wherever this signal came from below came from a place that was created by an almighty divine being similair to our own God?

Who here believes we are alone and there is only one Creator?

And who is that creator, or what is that creator.

I lay down the challenge.

XenuWonder.

If we are not alone, please introduce me to some of these other intelligent life forms.

[chaz wyman]

NO,,!!! ,,,The "observable" universe is 14 billion years old ,
because that is as far back as we can see ,
just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

The universe is aproximately 14 billion years old and that is how long light has had to get here. Light from farther out is still traveling to get here, the longer it goes the farther we will be able to see, in 1 billion years more, we will be able to see aproximately 15 billion light years.

Due to expansion there is a limit to how much more we will be able to see.
It appears that we are exactly in the right point in history to be able to know about the BB. If we have not discovered astronomy for another million years, we could never have come up with the BB theory as the evidence would not be available to us.
Someone posted a great Youtube where a scientist explains this. I'll take a look and see what I can find.

Addendum
Watch this!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqavYxr2VVg
From about 45mins in he tells why this is the best time to be an astronomer!

[Godfree]

just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

Universal Expansion obviously. Everywhere is the centre of the Universe.
That's the point.
What is your explanation?

I don't believe the bb theorists are claiming we are at the center,
I think the Milky Way Galaxy is about half way across one side ,
the images they have of the early universe are like 13.5 billion years old ,
13.5 billion years away to what they think is the center ,
the reason we can't see the other side ,
is because of photon decay , if it were movement that caused the red shift ,
then there would be the odd one out , a galaxy moving against the grain,
after colliding with another galaxy one could be flung off in our direction ,
and we would see those odd ones here and there if it were movement ,
if it is distance , then we will never see them no matter what direction they are moving in until they get close enough ,,
do you really think we are at the center of the universe,,????

[Godfree]

But this is not the case , there is a even spread of galaxies throughout the universe , there is no pattern radiating out from a central point ,,,[/quote]


There are several unwarrented assumptions here, Who is it that believes there is a center point to the Big Bang? Every cosmologist I have heard will explain that there is no center but the original speck that was the Big Bang was very small and very dense and that point itself expanded so everywhere is the center of the expansion. The Universe is evenly distributed because before the Big Band all the matter was in the point of matter and was evenly distributed because it was all packed so tightly together.


"explain why we don't see the other side "
The simple answer is that we do see on the other side of this hypothetical other side, first there is no center. We are in the Big Bang and the limit on how far we can see in the age of the Universe, we can only see the light that has had time to reach us.[/quote]

"the original speck of dust" site , is supposed to be about 13.7 billion light years away,,
if the expanding universe was evenly distributed throughout ,
when it was very young , they would be tightly packed together ,
so the most distant images , the earliest would have a tight bunch of matter,
because if the universe has just been born , we don't have galaxies formed yet , and we certainly shouldn't have old or red and dead galaxies in those early images , but we do,
explain please , how can we see old galaxies who's image is 10 billion years old , it takes more than 10 billion years to become an old galaxy ,
so the universe is at least 20 billion years old ,,!!!!

[Godfree]

NO,,!!! ,,,The "observable" universe is 14 billion years old ,
because that is as far back as we can see ,
just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

The universe is aproximately 14 billion years old and that is how long light has had to get here. Light from farther out is still traveling to get here, the longer it goes the farther we will be able to see, in 1 billion years more, we will be able to see aproximately 15 billion light years.

Now this is a most interesting flip of logic ,
according to the expansion theory 14 billion years ago ,
we were over there , at the start ,
so we are supposed to have been spat out faster than light ,
as a gas , then suddenly slow down , and form galaxies ,
so that the image of us starting can catch up ,,???
is that how you see it ,???
if the universe was expanding so rapidly , and we are talking about a shit load matter , all of a sudden it slows down , why ,
billions of galaxies worth of matter is supposed to be hurtling through space at greater than the speed of light , only to suddenly slow down ,,??
they now say the rate of expansion is accelerating again , so how or why would it slow down , only to be accelerating again ,
surely you can see this is all just too convenient , the movement of the universe like that , it makes no sense at all , but it does try and make sense of the bbt , the maths and the explanations are getting more and more bizzare , as the evidence stacks up against the bbt ,
A recent update on astronomy I saw said quite clearly ,
the observational evidence , does not support the theory , ie , the bbt ,
eventually science will have to admit , the bb is busted , !!!

[chaz wyman]

just use your brain for a minute here , we can see 14 billion light years in all directions , but we are not in the center of the universe ,
explain please , why can't we see what we know is there ,
the rest of the known universe , the other side , why can't we see it ,,???

Universal Expansion obviously. Everywhere is the centre of the Universe.
That's the point.
What is your explanation?

I don't believe the bb theorists are claiming we are at the center,

Then you are not paying attention.
It is space itself which is expanding. from a single point, thus all point in space are the centre.
BB theorist are claiming exactly that. From any where space is the same size circumpherentially, there is no 'edge or 'outside'.

I think the Milky Way Galaxy is about half way across one side ,

That is risible! What is your evidence?

the images they have of the early universe are like 13.5 billion years old ,
13.5 billion years away to what they think is the center ,
the reason we can't see the other side ,
is because of photon decay , if it were movement that caused the red shift ,

This is meaningless.

then there would be the odd one out , a galaxy moving against the grain,
after colliding with another galaxy one could be flung off in our direction ,
and we would see those odd ones here and there if it were movement ,
if it is distance , then we will never see them no matter what direction they are moving in until they get close enough ,,
do you really think we are at the center of the universe,,????

Yes, but so is everywhere else. If you travel in one direction you would eventually come back to where you start, space is contiguous. This solves the problem of infinity, and what is at the edge - there is no edge.

[thedoc]

Yes, but so is everywhere else. If you travel in one direction you would eventually come back to where you start, space is contiguous. This solves the problem of infinity, and what is at the edge - there is no edge.

Exactly, the Universe is finite but unbounded. It is of limited size but has no edge.

[thedoc]

Now this is a most interesting flip of logic ,
according to the expansion theory 14 billion years ago ,
we were over there , at the start ,
so we are supposed to have been spat out faster than light ,
as a gas , then suddenly slow down , and form galaxies ,
so that the image of us starting can catch up ,,???
is that how you see it ,???
if the universe was expanding so rapidly , and we are talking about a shit load matter , all of a sudden it slows down , why ,
billions of galaxies worth of matter is supposed to be hurtling through space at greater than the speed of light , only to suddenly slow down ,,??
they now say the rate of expansion is accelerating again , so how or why would it slow down , only to be accelerating again ,
surely you can see this is all just too convenient , the movement of the universe like that , it makes no sense at all , but it does try and make sense of the bbt , the maths and the explanations are getting more and more bizzare , as the evidence stacks up against the bbt ,
A recent update on astronomy I saw said quite clearly ,
the observational evidence , does not support the theory , ie , the bbt ,
eventually science will have to admit , the bb is busted , !!!

So the Universe is counter-intuitive. Where is it written in stone that the Universe must behave like you think it should?

[thedoc]

"the original speck of dust" site , is supposed to be about 13.7 billion light years away,,

NO, we are in the original "Speck of dust", We are part of it, it is not away from us.

[thedoc]

, we see nearly to the point they think
is the center or point of origin for the bb,

Who is the 'They' you are refering to? Here is a list of cosmologists and only a few of them advocate a steady state universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cosmologists

And since you are advocation an infinite universe, where does the center point of the Big Bang come in to that?