We are not alone..

[chaz wyman]

When reading the first line of this thread do you not consider this an attack on religious fundamentalism , that this thread is indeed about religion ,,???
maybe we should ask Xenu ,,

You'd do well to address what I said, not what you want me to have said.

[Godfree]

When reading the first line of this thread do you not consider this an attack on religious fundamentalism , that this thread is indeed about religion ,,???
maybe we should ask Xenu ,,

You'd do well to address what I said, not what you want me to have said.

What you said is you think my definition of Atheist is " wrong"
in order to make such an assumption I would assume you know the "right"
definition,,????
is there one correct definition , or many ,??according to you there is no authority that speaks for atheism ,
so I'm having a hard time working out on what you are basing ,"wrong",,,!!!

[attofishpi]

And yet, if anyone were to travel within 70 light years of earth, they would hear such a racket, as to be deafening as they came across old TV signals and the chatter of earth's communications.

This is an interesting point, but i'm not so sure it is correct. The fact that these signals have been propagated around the Earth for at least 70 years does not necessarily mean that the signals that made their way into space would be strong enough so as to be deafening, or even heard at all at such a vast distance of 70 light years.
My guess is that beyond the solar system, the signals would be dissipated to such an extent that they would be practically negligible.

[chaz wyman]

And yet, if anyone were to travel within 70 light years of earth, they would hear such a racket, as to be deafening as they came across old TV signals and the chatter of earth's communications.

This is an interesting point, but i'm not so sure it is correct. The fact that these signals have been propagated around the Earth for at least 70 years does not necessarily mean that the signals that made their way into space would be strong enough so as to be deafening, or even heard at all at such a vast distance of 70 light years.
My guess is that beyond the solar system, the signals would be dissipated to such an extent that they would be practically negligible.

I did not mean 'literally' deafening. But as regards a wow signal we have made quite a racket.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed - how would they dissipate?

[Godfree]

My guess is that beyond the solar system, the signals would be dissipated to such an extent that they would be practically negligible.[/quote]

I did not mean 'literally' deafening. But as regards a wow signal we have made quite a racket.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed - how would they dissipate?[/quote]

Chaz , the only constant is change ,,!!!!!
your energy is changing ,decaying ,breaking down , absorbed by numerous particles that it encounters , beyond about 14 billion light years , it's all radio waves , because the light frequency has changed , and it will keep changing until it is so weak as to be indistinguishable from the background radiation..

Which is why I can state with confidence ,
The Big Bang is Busted , the red shift , is caused by decay , distance ,
not movement , it all gets red shifted , and then it's all radio waves ,
a continual process of change ,,!!!

[chaz wyman]

Chaz , the only constant is change ,,!!!!!
your energy is changing ,decaying ,breaking down , absorbed by numerous particles that it encounters , beyond about 14 billion light years , it's all radio waves , because the light frequency has changed , and it will keep changing until it is so weak as to be indistinguishable from the background radiation..

Not according to Carl Sagan.

[attofishpi]

And yet, if anyone were to travel within 70 light years of earth, they would hear such a racket, as to be deafening as they came across old TV signals and the chatter of earth's communications.

This is an interesting point, but i'm not so sure it is correct. The fact that these signals have been propagated around the Earth for at least 70 years does not necessarily mean that the signals that made their way into space would be strong enough so as to be deafening, or even heard at all at such a vast distance of 70 light years.
My guess is that beyond the solar system, the signals would be dissipated to such an extent that they would be practically negligible.

I did not mean 'literally' deafening. But as regards a wow signal we have made quite a racket.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed - how would they dissipate?

The radio waves would dissipate by virtue of the fact that they are radiating out for 360 degrees from a central point. By the time they have reached the vast distance of 70 light years their energy would have been mangled to such a degree by natural conditions of the universe rendering them in effect, negligible...i think, but then im no scientist.

[Godfree]

[
Chaz , the only constant is change ,,!!!!!
y

Not according to Carl Sagan.[/quote]

Are you saying you/Sagan challenge ,"The only constant is change" ,???

[tillingborn]

Which is why I can state with confidence ,
The Big Bang is Busted , the red shift , is caused by decay , distance ,
not movement , it all gets red shifted , and then it's all radio waves ,
a continual process of change ,,!!!

There is an alternative view to the idea of photon decay; it is that red shift is caused by the expansion of the universe. In essence, as space stretches, it stretches the wavelength of EM/photons travelling through it. What is your alternative to the big bang?

[chaz wyman]

[

Are you saying you/Sagan challenge ,"The only constant is change" ,???

No but I am telling you that Carl Sagan, when contemplating whether we have left any wow signals said that the noise of TV and radio made it perfectly obvious that we had left a significant mark in the Universe.

[Godfree]

Which is why I can state with confidence ,
The Big Bang is Busted , the red shift , is caused by decay , distance ,
not movement , it all gets red shifted , and then it's all radio waves ,
a continual process of change ,,!!!

There is an alternative view to the idea of photon decay; it is that red shift is caused by the expansion of the universe. In essence, as space stretches, it stretches the wavelength of EM/photons travelling through it. What is your alternative to the big bang?

The Universe is not expanding , it is infinitely old and infinitely large ,
There was no beginning , there will be no end .
Man sees himself as the main event , it's all for us made by god ,
I would consider that masturbation ,
and they need a beginning , to make it fit the bible , "In the beginning"
So answer me this Mr tillingborn ,,
If there was ever nothing in the universe ,
then where did the something come from,?????????

[Godfree]

Chaz , the only constant is change ,,!!!!!
your energy is changing ,decaying ,breaking down , absorbed by numerous particles that it encounters , beyond about 14 billion light years , it's all radio waves , because the light frequency has changed , and it will keep changing until it is so weak as to be indistinguishable from the background radiation..

Not according to Carl Sagan.

You seem a little confused Chaz ,,here you are challenging it
and then when asked directly you say "no"

[chaz wyman]

You seem a little confused Chaz ,,here you are challenging it
and then when asked directly you say "no"

Why are you pretending to be more stupid than you otherwise appear?

I am telling you that Carl Sagan, when contemplating whether we have left any wow signals said that the noise of TV and radio made it perfectly obvious that we had left a significant mark in the Universe.

[Godfree]

You seem a little confused Chaz ,,here you are challenging it
and then when asked directly you say "no"

Why are you pretending to be more stupid than you otherwise appear?

I am telling you that Carl Sagan, when contemplating whether we have left any wow signals said that the noise of TV and radio made it perfectly obvious that we had left a significant mark in the Universe.

But not a constant one ,,??
so whats happening to it , why is it finite ,, ie , not constant ,
what will happen to it , how long will it go before it happens ,
surely we are talking about some sort of process of , decay/
change/erosion/conversion , whatever word you want to put on it ,
if it's not a constant , then it has a limited life ,
what sort of life span , distance it can cover ,
do you imagine a radio wave might have , ???
I would imagine it is less than 14 billion light years ,
because light from that far away is disappearing into radio waves ,
so if it starts out as a radio wave it will soon decay ,
so our message , wouldn't go any further than out telescopes can see ,,!!!!
which some may say is all there is , but in an infinite universe ,
it's just a drop in the ocean or a grain of sand on the beach ,,

[chaz wyman]

You seem a little confused Chaz ,,here you are challenging it
and then when asked directly you say "no"

Why are you pretending to be more stupid than you otherwise appear?

I am telling you that Carl Sagan, when contemplating whether we have left any wow signals said that the noise of TV and radio made it perfectly obvious that we had left a significant mark in the Universe.

But not a constant one ,,??
so whats happening to it , why is it finite ,, ie , not constant ,
what will happen to it , how long will it go before it happens ,
surely we are talking about some sort of process of , decay/
change/erosion/conversion , whatever word you want to put on it ,
if it's not a constant , then it has a limited life ,
what sort of life span , distance it can cover ,
do you imagine a radio wave might have , ???
I would imagine it is less than 14 billion light years ,
because light from that far away is disappearing into radio waves ,
so if it starts out as a radio wave it will soon decay ,
so our message , wouldn't go any further than out telescopes can see ,,!!!!
which some may say is all there is , but in an infinite universe ,
it's just a drop in the ocean or a grain of sand on the beach ,,

Try and think it through.
Radio transmissions have been leaving earth around 100 years. Everyday broadcasting since 1920. So 92 years.
That would be less than 100 light years distance. Where you get 14billion light years from is beyond my imagination.

The point being that is any civilisation had reached a stage of development that included radio/TV transmissions or similar at a time ago in years commensurate with their distance from earth we would have detected them. Distance is not a problem as EM energy is able to pass through matter far denser than is commonly found in space for huge lengths of time and distance without loosing its energy. As we have not detected such transmissions it is clear that there are no such civilisations within such distances.