Who wants a soul?

[chaz wyman]

Let's re-cap.

Okay then.

The brain creates an electromagnetic field; it’s very weak, but nonetheless real. Like all electromagnetic fields it spreads out, influences and is influenced by everything it encounters. So there is a sphere of influence centred on our head as wide in light years as we are old, which will continue to be part of the universe long after we are dead. It doesn’t seem very likely, but what if that is our soul?

This is rubbish, it was rubbish at the start of the thread and painstaking investigation reveals that it remains rubbish. Especially the bit in bold.

Presumably it is your painstaking investigation which led you to believe that the concept of waves is confined to science fiction, but that nonetheless sound is somewhere in the spectrum of electromagnetic waves.


It is clear from the above that you don't really read my posts. I said BRAIN WAVES do not really exist. Not 'waves'.
If you are not prepared to read what I say there is very little point in reading what you write either.
Wiki entry describes then as "a layman term for the electric fields measured by Electroencephalography".
Brains do not make unique waves and the term is from sci-fi.
Electroencephalography detects tine voltage fluctuations between electrodes placed directly on the scalp.
You are not playing the game properly.
I should not have to repeat myself.



Let's recap anyway:

Nope you are getting boring because you are ignoring basic facts, and not reading my responses.

You are living in a dream world. A baseball cap is an insulator of electricity , case closed. Waste electrical signals expressed as heat is not equivalent to a soul.

Chaz; you have been a model of consistency, you have never said it is anything but a load of cobblers. Oh well.

[tillingborn]

It is clear from the above that you don't really read my posts. I said BRAIN WAVES do not really exist. Not 'waves'.

I really do read your posts. What I don't understand is how you could have read the opening words of this thread and yet kept banging on about brain waves. Here's what you said most recently:

Let's talk about "Brain Waves" if you like.
First thing to learn is that there is NO SUCH THING. The brain does not send out a BRAIN_WAVE. There is nothing distinct from the EM spectrum that makes what the brain does unique, special or significant. The concept of the Wave or Ray is a science-fiction term. There is no Gravitic Ray or Wave, distinct from others.

Fair enough, you start by talking about brain waves, but then you seem to generalise by saying there is no such thing as a Wave or Ray. It is confusing, because I have never heard of a brain ray and I'm not clear what 'Gravitic' has got to do with it either. My first words in this thread were 'The brain creates an electromagnetic field.' An EM field has little to do with brain waves.

If you are not prepared to read what I say there is very little point in reading what you write either.

Well I read them, but they're not always as clear as you think they are. A bit like I said before:

That's not for you to say, Chaz. You know a great deal more about what and how you think, I've only got what you write to go on.

Not for me to say? What???

Of course not. You can’t insist that people interpret your words in the way that you hope they will.

I don't always understand what you are saying, in part, I suspect because you don't understand what you are saying either. When you do at least write sense, I don't always agree.

Wiki entry describes then as "a layman term for the electric fields measured by Electroencephalography".

And like I said 'A rose by any other name...', but as I am a layman it seems appropriate to say brainwave rather than 'the electric fields measured by Electroencephalography'. Actually, I think that description is misleading, the potential difference measured is caused by moving charges, much the same as charge is carried by any conductor. It's not the same as measuring EM.

Brains do not make unique waves and the term is from sci-fi.

I know brains don't make unique waves, I have made that very point several times.

Electroencephalography detects tine voltage fluctuations between electrodes placed directly on the scalp.

Indeed, and not the EM field.

You are not playing the game properly.

Well I didn't realise the game was to post self righteous, glibly vituperative codswallop. I'll try harder.

I should not have to repeat myself.

It's irritating isn't it? But as long as you keep misrepresenting what I have said, I shall keep correcting you. For example:

Brain waves are not the same thing as the EM field they generate, just as the ripples on a duck pond are not the same as the pebble that caused them.

You do give the impression that you are not paying attention.

Let's recap anyway:
Nope you are getting boring because you are ignoring basic facts, and not reading my responses.

Sorry if I'm boring.
I do read your responses, but a lot of what you say is based on the misconception that I, like you, don't know the difference between electricity and electromagnetic waves.

You are living in a dream world. A baseball cap is an insulator of electricity , case closed.

Hence the perfect Christmas gift for anyone with a fear of lightning. Chaz, this is silly; brain waves, EM waves, not the same thing you know?

Waste electrical signals expressed as heat is not equivalent to a soul.

Do you really, really not understand the difference between the electrical activity of the brain and the EM field it generates?

[chaz wyman]

It is clear from the above that you don't really read my posts. I said BRAIN WAVES do not really exist. Not 'waves'.

I really do read your posts. What I don't understand is how you could have read the opening words of this thread and yet kept banging on about brain waves. Here's what you said most recently:

I stopped reading there. You are just taking the piss now. It was you that started on about 'Brain Waves', and despite what I actually said, you tried to traduce me by claiming that I had tried to dismiss the existence of waves.

Like I said earlier. I don't want to be rude, but the conversation stopped being meaningful some time ago and -- we are done here.

I hope to talk to you in another thread in another time.
Cheerio.

[tillingborn]

I stopped reading there.

I doubt it.

You are just taking the piss now.

I don't really know how else to respond; your stance is so ridiculous I can't believe that someone who is outwardly intelligent could seriously hold it.

It was you that started on about 'Brain Waves',

From the start it has been clear that you either don't know the difference between electrical activity and the EM fields it generates, or you are wilfully ignoring it.

and despite what I actually said, you tried to traduce me by claiming that I had tried to dismiss the existence of waves.

It was a reasonable interpretation of the words you actually said: "The concept of the Wave or Ray is a science-fiction term." I had to look up traduce, I had no idea that was what I was doing. I was not mocking your dismissal of waves, given the wave/particle duality of nature, it is a defensible position, rather I was having a go at your apparent lack of scientific understanding and how little it hinders you airing an opinion; a prime example is this exchange:

The brain creates an electromagnetic field; it’s very weak, but nonetheless real. Like all electromagnetic fields it spreads out, influences and is influenced by everything it encounters. So there is a sphere of influence centred on our head as wide in light years as we are old, which will continue to be part of the universe long after we are dead. It doesn’t seem very likely, but what if that is our soul?

This is rubbish, it was rubbish at the start of the thread and painstaking investigation reveals that it remains rubbish. Especially the bit in bold.

It is not rubbish, it was not rubbish at the start of the thread and a cursory investigation would reveal that it is still not rubbish. Especially not the bit in bold, a quick read through anything on Michael Faraday should give you the basics.

Like I said earlier. I don't want to be rude,

This is bollocks.

but the conversation stopped being meaningful some time ago and -- we are done here.

So you keep saying.

I hope to talk to you in another thread in another time.

Given your enthusiasm for engagement, I suspect it is inevitable.

Cheerio.

Cheerio Chaz.
Anyway, to cut a long story short; it is a fact that there is an electromagnetic field generated by the brain. I hadn't realised that there are EM theories of consciousness, so I am grateful to Chaz for that at least. I have no idea whether EM fields have a roll in consciousness, much less post mortem. But given that there is a great deal we still do not know about nature, it seems to me the obvious place to start looking for ghosts and gods would be there. What I'd like to know is whether there is a limit to what we can find out about our universe; could there be a phenomenon for which we can think of no other explanation than the supernatural; frankly, I doubt it. Still, it could be that god and immortality are natural phenomena.

[chaz wyman]

I stopped reading there.

I doubt it.

No really - I tell people that to be polite so that they don't have to waste time on me.

[tillingborn]

I stopped reading there.

I doubt it.

No really - I tell people that to be polite so that they don't have to waste time on me.

Oh please.
Anyway Chaz, do you now know the difference between electrical activity and EM fields?

[tillingborn]

Anyway, there really, really is an EM field generated by brain activity; it is certainly associated with consciousness and there are even some fringe theories that claim it is consciousness. It's a long shot, but the field will persist after death and if it is consciousness, there is a tiny chance that consciousness survives death. I frankly doubt it and I shan't be making any plans, but what if? What would it mean to be conscious without a body? Would we have any control over the information other consciousnesses had access to? Would that be hell for christians and is that why they get their apologies in early?