The Dollar and world economy crash

[Khalid]

the more money in print, the less it is worth...

why is gold valuable? you can't print gold...

why was the dollar valuable? it was backed with gold... nixon screwed that up

-Imp

Ignorance of basic economics is astounding.

Money is not wealth.
Neither is gold. The amount of Gold held by a country never adequately represented the wealth of nations - that's why it was abandoned by the world's economies.
If we were to have a gold standard South Africa would suddenly be the most powerful nation on earth, and able to increase its clout by digging up a bit more. Ridiculous!

Then it would have been it's lucky fate . If it had not been for oil , the majority of Arab countries would have been beggars today . Gold means something touchable that needs humanist effort to be made and it'd have been a protection to the world financial system , not just paper that can lose it's worth and peoples' trust .

[The Voice of Time]

But what about the retirees ? Do you they receive increases in their retired pay or it stays fixed in front of inflation ?

That depends. Economics isn't rocket science. Investment in the economy can do so many things. For instance it could raise real estate prices, and many retired people own real estate to my knowledge, so in that respect they would make money capital off it.

[bobevenson]

Your last point about real estate is not a question about stealing, but about zoning.

Seems your objection was the reduction of value to something. This case is a reduction of value, yet it is not stealing? Aren't they "stealing" the open space making out the view to fill it with building space? Aren't they "stealing" the domination of sound-space for their own benefit and purpose?

Again, since the only proper function of government is social integration, like a traffic cop to keep people from running over each othe, this is a question of government zoning, to prevent actions of people that reduce the value of somebody else's property, or to see that the person is properly compensated.

[bobevenson]

Economics isn't rocket science.

You are wrong, economics must be rocket science since most people don't understand it any better than rocket science.

[The Voice of Time]

Economics isn't rocket science.

You are wrong, economics must be rocket science since most people don't understand it any better than rocket science.

God jesus christ... you understood what I meant...

[chaz wyman]

the more money in print, the less it is worth...

why is gold valuable? you can't print gold...

why was the dollar valuable? it was backed with gold... nixon screwed that up

-Imp

Ignorance of basic economics is astounding.

Money is not wealth.
Neither is gold. The amount of Gold held by a country never adequately represented the wealth of nations - that's why it was abandoned by the world's economies.
If we were to have a gold standard South Africa would suddenly be the most powerful nation on earth, and able to increase its clout by digging up a bit more. Ridiculous!

Then it would have been it's lucky fate . If it had not been for oil , the majority of Arab countries would have been beggars today . Gold means something touchable that needs humanist effort to be made and it'd have been a protection to the world financial system , not just paper that can lose it's worth and peoples' trust .

The Arabs have OIL, which is more practical and useful than gold, that's why a gold standard is bullshit. No country in their right mind is interested in adopting it.
Other countries have other things of real worth. We don't have a god standard because it is meaningless.

[chaz wyman]

the Obama money printing is good for the US economy, there's no doubt in that.

Better ability to compete on price.

More money to invest in the economy whereas it is now short on cash.

Lower dollar price means cheaper loans, since I think they borrowed money mostly in dollars (since the Chinese government I've heard tries to get rid of its large reserves of foreign currency, and they are the prime lenders).

Avoiding new loans.

And so on...

But what about the retirees ? Do you they receive increases in their retired pay or it stays fixed in front of inflation ?

Obviously people who rely on savings and fixed incomes are going to suffer from Inflation.

So much is obvious.

Do you really think saving money is meaningful? Money drawn from pensions has to take resources and value from the current economic health of the nation. No economy can guarantee savings will retain their value.
If you believe they can then you have accepted one of the myths of modern economy.

[bobevenson]

The Arabs have oil, which is more practical and useful than gold, that's why a gold standard is bullshit. No country in their right mind is interested in adopting it. Other countries have other things of real worth. We don't have a gold standard because it is meaningless.

Again, let me say that an oil standard would be partly correct, a gold standard would be partly correct, but the only standard that would be totally correct is a property standard that takes into consideration everything that money represents. This is a basic tenet of Evensonomics.

[chaz wyman]

The Arabs have oil, which is more practical and useful than gold, that's why a gold standard is bullshit. No country in their right mind is interested in adopting it. Other countries have other things of real worth. We don't have a gold standard because it is meaningless.

Again, let me say that an oil standard would be partly correct, a gold standard would be partly correct, but the only standard that would be totally correct is a property standard that takes into consideration everything that money represents. This is a basic tenet of Evensonomics.

OIl fluctuates in value according to supply and demand, so does Gold and so does property (by which I think you mean Real Estate y/n?).
Money which has its own standard provides an abstracted (objectified) measure of the degree of demand for each product.

[bobevenson]

The Arabs have oil, which is more practical and useful than gold, that's why a gold standard is bullshit. No country in their right mind is interested in adopting it. Other countries have other things of real worth. We don't have a gold standard because it is meaningless.

Again, let me say that an oil standard would be partly correct, a gold standard would be partly correct, but the only standard that would be totally correct is a property standard that takes into consideration everything that money represents. This is a basic tenet of Evensonomics.

OIl fluctuates in value according to supply and demand, so does Gold and so does property (by which I think you mean Real Estate y/n?).
Money which has its own standard provides an abstracted (objectified) measure of the degree of demand for each product.

Everything fluctuates in value, but any fluctuation in value should depend on supply and demand, not a surplus of money generated by the government, which is the sole cause of inflation. Again, by property, I don't mean just real estate, but anything and everything with intrinsic market value. It is an economic imperative that the supply of money should never exceed the total value of all property (in other words, anything that can be bought or sold), since any excess money is by definition de facto inflation.

[Wootah]

Personally I think we are missing the real politics of the situation. A country or person can produce whatever currency they like and it will be evaluated by the marketplace as to its worth.
Can Bill pay Mat for his I.O.U. if Mat thinks Bill can then the I.O.U has value.

[chaz wyman]

Again, let me say that an oil standard would be partly correct, a gold standard would be partly correct, but the only standard that would be totally correct is a property standard that takes into consideration everything that money represents. This is a basic tenet of Evensonomics.

OIl fluctuates in value according to supply and demand, so does Gold and so does property (by which I think you mean Real Estate y/n?).
Money which has its own standard provides an abstracted (objectified) measure of the degree of demand for each product.

Everything fluctuates in value, but any fluctuation in value should depend on supply and demand, not a surplus of money generated by the government, which is the sole cause of inflation.

No - printing money is not the sole cause of inflation, and does not always result by prinitng. The Gov is responsible for the money supply. The power to choose the amount is paramount. It is necessary for the gov to ensure there is enough to go around. think about it. It is also a tool to avoid DEFLATION.

Again, by property, I don't mean just real estate, but anything and everything with intrinsic market value. It is an economic imperative that the supply of money should never exceed the total value of all property (in other words, anything that can be bought or sold), since any excess money is by definition de facto inflation.

You sound like some twisted commie that is jealous of people having things.
Let's say I have a TV - do I have to continue to pay tax on it every month whilst it still has a market value?
I think I said before that such an idea is ridiculous. how would you make out your tax return? DO I have to itemise everything in the house?

[Wootah]

Is Khalid right in calling it a Ponzi scheme?

All value and investment in that sense is a ponzi scheme - if you can't sell X for more than you bought it then you lose.

A ponzi scheme is paying off current investors with future investors investments.

[reasonvemotion]

finance.yahoo.com/news/

The Trump Corporation's first venture into the Canadian market may be falling apart, and not just literally.

Talon International Inc. — the company that developed Toronto’s 65-story Trump International Hotel & Tower — is now suing seven disgruntled investors who believe they were misled, according to a recent report from The Toronto Star.

The Canadian newspaper reports that "dozens" of parties who purchased suites in the new hotel-condo complex have been trying to renege on final payments. The payments average over $500,000.

The problem is that rising maintenance costs and exorbitant property taxes have cost investors more than they expected. Revenue from the hotel was supposed to offset rising property costs, but the Star adds "buyers say they’ve been told hotel occupancy is running anywhere from 10 to 50 percent and room rates are averaging about $300 per night instead of the $600 and up Talon had originally touted."
The project — already quite controversial in Toronto architecture circles —began construction in 2007. The hotel portion of the tower had a 'soft launch' at the end of January. Donald Trump is known to be a minority shareholder in the investment, though it's unclear exactly how much money Trump invested in the project.

[Khalid]

Is Khalid right in calling it a Ponzi scheme?

All value and investment in that sense is a ponzi scheme - if you can't sell X for more than you bought it then you lose.

A ponzi scheme is paying off current investors with future investors investments.

Just try to find an answer , how could a government ever pay back a national debt worth over 16 trillions or reduce it while it's in permanent need to borrow another bigger loan every time due to the interests ? If I borrowed a dollar which is the only dollar exists on earth and promised to pay it back with an interest that's another dollar , how can I pay back the second dollar ? The answer is that I have to borrow it and here we are in the ponzi scheme .