How Believing in an Afterlife Can Ruin Your Life

[Philosophy Now]

John Shand gives us a grave warning.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/84/How_ ... _Your_Life

[reasonvemotion]

I wonder, is that the only reason a person "believes"?

[Bernard]

What do you mean REV?

The author seems to miss something. We are born all me, me, me for very good reasons - we don't know how to look after ourselves, so we have to make the point to those around us of how important we are and how much attention we need. As we mature we loose this by degrees, and the sense of self with it - but a strange thing, our consciousness and sense of being increases. So if there is more consciousness the less self we have, then it would stand to reason that when self is obliterated we are left only with consciousness. I agree with the author though that a personal continuation in an 'afterlife' is an absurdity that deserves outright dismissal.

[reasonvemotion]

If one attains total consciousness what happens then?

My comment refers to man's belief in God and life ever after. Is it the promise of eternal life only, that inspires some men to "behave". Personally I have never wanted eternal life, but I do find happiness when I can give comfort in some way to my fellow human beings.

[chaz wyman]

What do you mean REV?

The author seems to miss something. We are born all me, me, me for very good reasons - we don't know how to look after ourselves, so we have to make the point to those around us of how important we are and how much attention we need. As we mature we loose this by degrees, and the sense of self with it - but a strange thing, our consciousness and sense of being increases. So if there is more consciousness the less self we have, then it would stand to reason that when self is obliterated we are left only with consciousness. I agree with the author though that a personal continuation in an 'afterlife' is an absurdity that deserves outright dismissal.

This does not 'stand' to reason at all. You can turn this on its head. When we are born we are all consciousness, as we grow to diminish ourselves for the sake of others. Becoming a parent is the biggest move towards a negation of the consciousness of the self. When we become grandparents our conscious being is even less important and we become more willing to let this go completely.
Life diminishes with each passing year until the end when we terminate.
Not only that, but we loose the biological matrix which generates that consciousness, and like shutting down a computer the body dies and with it the means to generate that consciousness, eventually being burned or rotting away in the ground. Our consciousness is nothing if not a function of the organisation of the cerebrum.
In many cases you can bear witness to the gradual loss of the consciousness in illnesses such as Alzheimer's, and senile dementia.

[reasonvemotion]

After reading your post CW it is ruining "this life" for me. Many mental pictures. LOL

A little too much info before breakfast.


Why does "me" disappear with the gaining of consciousness, why not have both. Does that mean that on attainment of total consciousness you die and if you do not attain what then? A continuing cycle, is that not similar to hell on earth?

[Bernard]

Yeah, 'living forever' - who in their right mind... ?

Maybe consciousness wasn't the right word... awareness? attention?

Difference between selfish awareness and self awareness, REV - and shellfish awareness.

[Felasco]

Who is "me"?

Consider waves on the ocean.

We can sit on the beach and watch a particular wave roll in from the horizon.

As the wave gets closer and enters shallow water, the face of the wave gets bigger and bigger.

Then the face of the wave becomes so steep the top of the wave begins to fall over the front.

Then the wave hits the sandbar and a big explosion of noisy activity occurs as the wave crashes all over the place. Very exciting!

Then then remnants of the wave wash up on shore.

And then the wave is over.

The whole event only took a few minutes.

The wave is gone now. It's dead.

But the ocean is still there, completely unchanged from what it has been for millions of years.

And then we might observe, the wave was never anything but the ocean. It was never a separate entity. It just looked like a separate entity, and because of all the action and noise, the illusion was compelling.

Science types insist they are the wave.

Spiritual types insist they are the ocean.

And then they probably start arguing about which is right, ignoring the fact that both are right, because to acknowledge that would spoil the food fight.

[Bernard]

But does the wave die?

[Felasco]

But does the wave die?

Good question. The best I can do for now is to suggest that it's all in the eye of the beholder.

The wave is energy moving through water. Neither the energy or the water are destroyed, but only change form.

If one chooses to define the wave as that temporary form, then the waves dies. If one chooses to define the wave as the energy and water, then the wave doesn't die.

As best I can tell, there is no definitive final authoritative answer provided by nature, so it's up to each of us to define the matter as we wish.

This raises what is perhaps an interesting question.

Which is more rational?

Defining ourselves as the temporary? Or defining ourselves as the permanent?

[Bernard]

I think defining ourselves as essentially infinite (as in the wave is essentially water) is a better use of rationality, but not necessarily more rational.

[chaz wyman]

But does the wave die?

Get a cup of water and make a wave. come back in two minute and tell me where the wave has gone.

[chaz wyman]

After reading your post CW it is ruining "this life" for me. Many mental pictures. LOL

A little too much info before breakfast.


Why does "me" disappear with the gaining of consciousness, why not have both. Does that mean that on attainment of total consciousness you die and if you do not attain what then? A continuing cycle, is that not similar to hell on earth?

We are born, and we die. We have consciousness then we loose it forever. Nothing could be more simple.
Some loose it suddenly, others by slow degrees.

[Felasco]

I think defining ourselves as essentially infinite (as in the wave is essentially water) is a better use of rationality, but not necessarily more rational.

Ok, I'm listening, please explain further.

[Bernard]

Rationality becomes something only of service to something better: full perception. As an agent it operates with less importance in regard itself and therefore becomes more functional, as any navel-gazing is dispensed with on its part - it has to act in cooperation with other faculties of perception rather than as stand alone facult: as a lone wolf it soon dies, as lone wolves all do.