Searching for a job

[John]

VOT you will need money, but you wont need to surrender who you are, just shut your mouth between 9 to 5 pm

I don't think anyone is asking, or expecting, any more.

[johngalthasspoken]

young man, you can always go back to college.you should be glad you live a country where higher education is FREE. you have free Housing,healthcare, & if i'm correct, you get paid a living wage in Norway regardless of employment. i'm sure you can land a job in the booming petroleum & gas sector..

[reasonvemotion]

I don't think anyone is asking, or expecting, any more.

I think VOT was.



VOT:

and nobody actually answered my original question.

[The Voice of Time]

actually I haven't finished high school so I can't go to college ^^

[reasonvemotion]

9 to 3 PM Standard working hours here

Stop complaining

[John]

And nobody actually answered my original question ^^

OK let's looks at your original question which I've quoted below.

I'm wondering about an issue of applied ethics: I most likely won't get any jobs I search for, and most likely I'm pretty bad at doing most of them even if I try to do good; is it ethical of me to search for jobs that if I get would only disappoint the leadership and their expectations?

I would answer that as long as you present yourself honestly and don't give false expectations of what you can deliver then there's no ethical problem. If however, you intend to take a job and then just not bother applying yourself to it then you could be accused of having been, and continuing to be, dishonest with your new employer so that does present an ethical problem.

I'm very good at talking for myself, not so good at delivering, I could get a job I'm not qualified for personally, should I risk doing this to the people who hire me?

On the issue of getting a job your not qualified for then it depends on how you get the job. If you claim to have qualifications that you don't that would also be dishonest but if you make no such claims but get the job anyway then there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously it depends on the job - an employer looking for IT personnel might waive a graduate requirement if they were otherwise impressed with you but you shouldn't be allowed to perform neurosurgery no matter how witty your banter at the interview.

Should I put my own need for a job before their need for an efficient, dependable and well-managing employee?

You should look after your own interests first because the employer will be looking after theirs. If you provide an honest account of yourself then it's up to the employer to chose the best person for the job. If you really have no intention of actually doing any work once you're employed then I'd say you were acting unethically because you've presented yourself dishonestly.

You'll have noticed a common thread here where I refer to honesty a lot but you also need to know that a CV is essentially a marketing document and people do tailor them for specific jobs. I'm also well aware that people often embellish aspects of their previous work experience (not such an issue if you don't have any though) but the golden rule I would always advise is: if you're going to exaggerate a bit at least don't claim that you can do something that you can't.

My advice to you would probably be to go to University though. You're young and clearly a clever guy so get a degree and you'll have more avenues open to you.

[John]

actually I haven't finished high school so I can't go to college ^^

There are always options. Stop focusing on what you think you can't do so finish high school if that's what's needed.

[The Voice of Time]

It's not because of laziness or lacking ability to take orders. Instead, it's more about the fact that my mind is slow at work and not capable of taking in too much in stressing situations before having to dispose of some of it, and my abilities to take orders are mostly not needed as almost all the jobs ask for "an independent" person, in that they can solve problems themselves, which I don't have mostly the confidence to do, in fact I'm notorious among my former worker colleagues (at an informal job) for being in need to receive orders and not think through my job myself (it's mostly because when I do regular work I usually work in a kind-of zombie-mode where I'm like a medieval peasent: "yes m'lord! ay m'lord! right away!" (if you understood the Warcraft 3 reference )

[John]

It's not because of laziness or lacking ability to take orders. Instead, it's more about the fact that my mind is slow at work and not capable of taking in too much in stressing situations before having to dispose of some of it, and my abilities to take orders are mostly not needed as almost all the jobs ask for "an independent" person, in that they can solve problems themselves, which I don't have mostly the confidence to do, in fact I'm notorious among my former worker colleagues (at an informal job) for being in need to receive orders and not think through my job myself (it's mostly because when I do regular work I usually work in a kind-of zombie-mode where I'm like a medieval peasent: "yes m'lord! ay m'lord! right away!" (if you understood the Warcraft 3 reference )

I'd still pursue further education but if you really just want a means of making money without having to think too much in the job are there any production line jobs, such as factory work, available?

It could also just be a lack of experience and confidence in the workplace which means you may be worrying about something that's actually quite typical amongst new workers.

[The Voice of Time]

9 to 3 PM Standard working hours here

Stop complaining

I did like the proposal from the party I'm leaning towards wanting 9 to 1 PM jobs, though I don't think it's feasible in such a globalized economy as today's. It would worsen Norway's already lacking competitiveness (due to our high wages mostly)

[Bernard]

Personality is just a mask a surface appearance, It means little. The best personality type table I've come to know is only composed of three basic catagories of personality. These are don Juan Matus's rendition. There are as many subheadings as you like, but I've always found it simpler to stay with the three:

1.Fart: there always make sure everyone knows when they walk into the room: self reliance to the point of hysteria, only able to function alone: kill to be top.
2.Puke: Nice people, so nice you want to throw up when they're nearby. Unable to function alone however.
3.Piss: neither/nor, ineffective alone or with others, fence sitter.

Fart's and Puke are compatible with each other but not with other farts and pukes, but pisses are only able to cohabit with other pisses.

My brother is happy with his guitar and daydreams. He had a schizophrenic crack-up in time. I've gone as far as I can with him. We're still on good terms, but he likes his life and the best I can do to help him now is to leave him be himself and have a good laugh and chat now and then.

I disagree with you Bernard. It depends if the example I give you, would persuade you, which I doubt. But it is almost akin to presenting the bible as to presenting psychology to some. There are different personalities, which you will agree with, but there are people who are in the minority. My personality is INFJ, making up an estimated 1% of all people, and are the most rare type (males even more so). They are introspective and complex people, do you know how difficult that is to find someone compatible with you. OK, I hear what you are all saying, but shit happens. . VOT does not have to surrender his "uniqueness" to be able to work. The mistake your brother made was he just didnt want to, but as you seem to be a person who advocates kindess and generosity, perhaps you can help him out of the mire, it would be fitting to what you preach on this forum.

VOT you will need money, but you wont need to surrender who you are, just shut your mouth between 9 to 5 pm

[Bernard]

It's not so much about taking instructions from others - I'm great at that too - but stepping into another skin. Become someone else! Your real problem right now is that you have hit senility. True? We all hit it at about twenty. Look around at others your age they are endlessly repeating themselves: same stories about themselves and their capabilities which have scarcely changed from about the age of three! I have worked many many types of jobs and the thing that I at first hated about this shifting around was that I had to reinvent myself with each job. Eventually it became an art form that helped unfreeze my stuck person. It makes for a harder lifein many ways but it is great to be able to shift from mode to mode. There is Bernie, the workin' class guy who gets on with the boys. There is Bernhard; the sensible meticulous worker. There is Bern; the modern thinker outwitting his employers. There is Bernardo, connoisseur of fine things and afficionado. There is Bernard (French) the sensitive new age guy who understands the female condition. There are endless forms... all of them puffs of air! And I laugh, laugh, laugh!

[The Voice of Time]

hmmm... not hysterically I suppose?

I'm not good at shifting roles for too long, I easily hit a wall of incapacity when I stretch my new roles too far. I can "act" that way, not live like that.

[Bernard]

None of us are much good at it, and just a few moments is all that is usually required among our fellow human beings - because most people only take a few moments to check us out. A job interview is often the most that will evr be revealed about you to your prospective employer. What other options have you got? Make no mistake, society eats us alive bit by bit and no-one has the means to overcome that fact. Look at Brevic - he thinks he succeeded. What a fool! Now he is going to be squashed like a bug. Keep a low profile and slowly see if you can escape. It takes a lifetime to do it, but it can be done. little decision by little decision, working toward what you would just really like to be doing without letting anyone distract you. It can be as mad as anything, so long as its you! You can make a living with your little finger, if you have to lie the crap out of anything to get a job, that's fine - but don't be a fool and think no-one is going to belt you for it if you make your lies too damaging, too selfish.

and no .... not hysterically. I'm one of the nice guys

[Kayla]

I can also work at a supermarket, but places like that usually want efficiency and dependability before anything, none of which I can offer. I'm slow and irregular.

what prevents you from being a little faster and more dependable

i mean those things are not skills, exactly

as i understand it in your part of the world you could have a minimum wage job and your life would not completely suck you'd have socialized medicine and shit

I could work at storage places and with logistics or gas stations, but I have no driving certificate, especially not for small trucks, and many gas stations can't be reached by bus, and they also usually want somebody who "knows something", while I'm in the blue when it comes to cars.

you are in sweden right

dont you guys have free education

what would it take for oyu to get the driving certificate

Should I put my own need for a job before their need for an efficient, dependable and well-managing employee?

well why can't you be efficient dependable and well-managing

i spent some time working at mcdonalds

as far as i can tell anyone who is not a retard can show up on time and take whatever shit shifts they give you and generally tries to work hard will eventually become a shift supervisor - now the shit shifts on demand part is tough if you have kids - do you have kids?

i dont see why those things would be any different in sweden or finland or wherever it is that you are

but if you are single and willing to work whenever they ask you to - and can string a few words in the local language together - you should be ok

are you any good with kids?

i quit working at mcdonalds to do babysitting and i charge twice the going rate

people are willing to pay me cause they know i will not spend the time doing homework and wont have my boyfriend over and if the kid is asleep i will clean the house and whatnot

can you do those things?

i know its easier to get into that market if you are a girl but that is not as important as it used to be