Biblical Principles: Basis for America's Laws

[tbieter]

Regarding Blackstone's Commentaries, this was the point that I was trying to make: "This work has sold more copies in America than in England and was a basic textbook of America’s early lawyers." , supra . When one "read law" to become a lawyer, he read Blackstone. On the frontier, the Bible and the Commentaries were usually the only texts that the lawyers and judges had available for guidance in the adjudication of claims.

[Lynn]

Thanks

[ForgedinHell]

Regarding Blackstone's Commentaries, this was the point that I was trying to make: "This work has sold more copies in America than in England and was a basic textbook of America’s early lawyers." , supra . When one "read law" to become a lawyer, he read Blackstone. On the frontier, the Bible and the Commentaries were usually the only texts that the lawyers and judges had available for guidance in the adjudication of claims.

Name a legal principle based on Christianity. I've never spent one second learning how any legal principle is based on Christianity, and I can't think of one.

[Kayla]

The Bible definitely helped to establish slavery in America, as the Bible condones slavery.

kind of

the bible forbids one to return runaway slaves to their master - deuteronomy 23:15-25

which would maintaining slavery as an institution difficult

[Kayla]

I actually think religious people in America are overall quite tolerant

they are

even here in texas

the problem is that the sane religious people are often all too unwilling to make negative comments about their crazier coreligiounists

[ForgedinHell]

The Bible definitely helped to establish slavery in America, as the Bible condones slavery.

kind of

the bible forbids one to return runaway slaves to their master - deuteronomy 23:15-25

which would maintaining slavery as an institution difficult

The Bible supports the beating of slaves, provided no permanent damage is done, and the Southern Baptist church was founded to support slavery in the American South. The Bible also states that slaves should be especially obedient to their Christian masters. The Christians who supported slavery included Mormons, Baptists, and I can't recall a lot of the others.

Now, it is true that one of the strongest abolutionists was a Quacker. However, it was not based on his religion. He was a school teacher, and he noted that the black kids he was teaching were every bit as smart as the white students. It then dawned on him that they should not be slaves. The Quackers, recognizing this fact, then stood against slavery. So, I'm not saying one is forced to support slavery as a Christian, there were Christians fighting against slavery, but purely on a theological basis, the slave supporters probably had the stronger theological argument.

[ForgedinHell]

I actually think religious people in America are overall quite tolerant

they are

even here in texas

the problem is that the sane religious people are often all too unwilling to make negative comments about their crazier coreligiounists

There is some truth in that, but, I do get tired with Europeans portraying the religious people in America as drooling idiots who go around holding up signs calling for the stoning of gays. The vast majority of religious people in America cannot stand such people and view them as un-Christian. The Episcopaleans (spelling?) actually openly support science. The average Catholic in America ignores the Pope. Religious people in America are not being accurately portrayed, especially on this forum, and even I as an atheist, am getting tired of the false characterization.

[Kayla]

lets say someone decided to create a society based explicitly on biblical principles

how would you have institutionalized slavery if it is illegal to return runaway slaves to their masters

obviously the bible is not a complete set of laws

so some mechanism would be needed to normalize the status of runaway slaves that does not involve returning them to their masters

the bible does not explicitly spell anything out here leaving lots of scope for our imaginary social/theological experiment

but since the intent here is obviously protection of slaves the rules would have to be very different from what actually existed in actual slave owning societies

[ForgedinHell]

lets say someone decided to create a society based explicitly on biblical principles

how would you have institutionalized slavery if it is illegal to return runaway slaves to their masters

obviously the bible is not a complete set of laws

so some mechanism would be needed to normalize the status of runaway slaves that does not involve returning them to their masters

the bible does not explicitly spell anything out here leaving lots of scope for our imaginary social/theological experiment

but since the intent here is obviously protection of slaves the rules would have to be very different from what actually existed in actual slave owning societies

The Bible allows for slaves. The Bible even allows for the beating of slaves, and tells us that slaves should be especially respectful of their Christian owners. Jesus never was alleged to have said, "Free the slaves." Sam Harris in his Letter to a Christian Nation goes over the scripture that supports slavery, and then makes the point that even if there is some confusion in the Bible on slavery, it is hard to imagine that the Bible is a moral book when on such a simple issue of slavery, there are numerous passages that support the institution. And he's right about that.

[Kayla]

you are assuming that the bible is intended as a set of rules set down for all times

to be fair so are most of my coreligionists

but there is no basis for this view

it is a collection of stories

interesting stories stories that bring up moral issues stories that hopefully make us think

[reasonvemotion]

Bankruptcy and the Bible, by Brett Weiss, Maryland Bankruptcy Attorney

The teaching of both the Old and New Testaments is that compassion, mercy and justice are to override purely economic concerns, such as loans.

Mark 10:25 he said that, “t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter in to the kingdom of God.” And in Luke 16:9, He said, ”I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings, and to forgive and ye shall be forgiven.”

The 2005 Bankruptcy Law

The bankruptcy law passed by Congress and signed into law by the President in 2005 lacks any compassion for the poor, makes no redress to the modern day money changers who shamelessly peddle plastic at rates that would draw the Holy wrath of God himself, provides no relief but only additional misery to the families saddled with thousands of dollars in medical bills, and most importantly, severely undermines the economic and social stability of the average American families with debt trouble.

These Americans are like the farmers of the Old Testament who proclaimed to King Nehemiah, “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our countrymen and though our sons are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others.” Nehemiah 5:3-5.

[ForgedinHell]

Bankruptcy and the Bible, by Brett Weiss, Maryland Bankruptcy Attorney

The teaching of both the Old and New Testaments is that compassion, mercy and justice are to override purely economic concerns, such as loans.

Mark 10:25 he said that, “t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter in to the kingdom of God.” And in Luke 16:9, He said, ”I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings, and to forgive and ye shall be forgiven.”

The 2005 Bankruptcy Law

The bankruptcy law passed by Congress and signed into law by the President in 2005 lacks any compassion for the poor, makes no redress to the modern day money changers who shamelessly peddle plastic at rates that would draw the Holy wrath of God himself, provides no relief but only additional misery to the families saddled with thousands of dollars in medical bills, and most importantly, severely undermines the economic and social stability of the average American families with debt trouble.

These Americans are like the farmers of the Old Testament who proclaimed to King Nehemiah, “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our countrymen and though our sons are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others.” Nehemiah 5:3-5.

You have to be one of the more ignorant people on this forum. The ancient Jews set up the forgiveness plans, including the jubilee, in order to prevent one tribe from economically dominating another. The system was unworkable and was abandoned. There is nothing in Christianity that speaks of forgiving debt. The original bankruptcy laws in the US were intended to encourage people to start businesses. It was recognized that most businesses fail, so to encourage businesses, the bankruptcy laws were developed.

The current bankruptcy laws do allow people to wipe out a lot of their debt and get back on their feet, but for those who have the means to pay back some of their loans, they are obligated to do so.

What is moral about filing bankruptcy anyway? The person owes the money, and when they don't pay it back, it's nothing less than legalized theft.

And I'll be sure to ignore all the multi-millionaire preachers on TV this Sunday begging for even more money, since everyone knows how you Christians love to be poor.

[ForgedinHell]

Bankruptcy and the Bible, by Brett Weiss, Maryland Bankruptcy Attorney

The teaching of both the Old and New Testaments is that compassion, mercy and justice are to override purely economic concerns, such as loans.

Mark 10:25 he said that, “t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter in to the kingdom of God.” And in Luke 16:9, He said, ”I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings, and to forgive and ye shall be forgiven.”

The 2005 Bankruptcy Law

The bankruptcy law passed by Congress and signed into law by the President in 2005 lacks any compassion for the poor, makes no redress to the modern day money changers who shamelessly peddle plastic at rates that would draw the Holy wrath of God himself, provides no relief but only additional misery to the families saddled with thousands of dollars in medical bills, and most importantly, severely undermines the economic and social stability of the average American families with debt trouble.

These Americans are like the farmers of the Old Testament who proclaimed to King Nehemiah, “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our countrymen and though our sons are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others.” Nehemiah 5:3-5.

You have to be one of the more ignorant people on this forum. The ancient Jews set up the forgiveness plans, including the jubilee, in order to prevent one tribe from economically dominating another. The system was unworkable and was abandoned. There is nothing in Christianity that speaks of forgiving debt. The original bankruptcy laws in the US were intended to encourage people to start businesses. It was recognized that most businesses fail, so to encourage businesses, the bankruptcy laws were developed.

The current bankruptcy laws do allow people to wipe out a lot of their debt and get back on their feet, but for those who have the means to pay back some of their loans, they are obligated to do so.

What is moral about filing bankruptcy anyway? The person owes the money, and when they don't pay it back, it's nothing less than legalized theft.

And I'll be sure to ignore all the multi-millionaire preachers on TV this Sunday begging for even more money, since everyone knows how you Christians love to be poor.

[Kayla]

What is moral about filing bankruptcy anyway? The person owes the money, and when they don't pay it back, it's nothing less than legalized theft.

nonsense

if you agree to loan money in a jurisdiction where bankruptcy protection exists you are voluntarily assuming the risk of getting back little or nothing due to bankruptcy protection

theft by definition is something you do not consent to

[Arising_uk]

... There is nothing in Christianity that speaks of forgiving debt. ...

Well, apart from The Lords Prayer that is.

"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
..."
Matthew 6.10 - 12
King James Bible.