I got pregnant from Rape

[vegetariantaxidermy]

My immediate reaction is that her explanation proves my trying to explain that "innocent" people aren't capable of coping with life's diversity.

My second reaction is that the US have some pretty weird politicians, though of course with the whole world laughing at Sarah Palin (anyone seen Ironsky? I have) that's not really big news.

My third reaction is wonder at putting together of pieces as I've never really understood the process which leads to a person being so full of negative emotions after a rape (of course I understand the possibility, but never the full "process" as it's an alien experience for me).

Males get raped too. Are you saying you can't imagine how that would make you feel?

[The Voice of Time]

My immediate reaction is that her explanation proves my trying to explain that "innocent" people aren't capable of coping with life's diversity.

My second reaction is that the US have some pretty weird politicians, though of course with the whole world laughing at Sarah Palin (anyone seen Ironsky? I have) that's not really big news.

My third reaction is wonder at putting together of pieces as I've never really understood the process which leads to a person being so full of negative emotions after a rape (of course I understand the possibility, but never the full "process" as it's an alien experience for me).

Males get raped too. Are you saying you can't imagine how that would make you feel?

What is this focus around whether I can imagine it or not? Of course I can try to imagine it, but my imagination doesn't prove what it's like. Do my sexual fantasies tell me how sex is like? No.

I've never just been able to put the pieces together to get a coherent picture, how difficult is that to agree with? If you haven't experienced something yourself (and my life is very different from the given one here) you're not in a good position to make guessings about how it is directly, in reality, especially something as serious as this. But enough of this nonsense-questioning...

[reasonvemotion]

I don't view her struggle as being Catholic teachings on abortion.

She obviously did as she said so.

What I picked up on this article were the statements.

I’m a Catholic, and I didn’t understand: How could this happen to me? I was innocent. I did nothing wrong and after her abortion she still struggles and says "twenty years of serving time for a crime I didn’t commit".


The Catholic Church's stance on abortion.

"Any Catholic who deliberately and knowingly obtains a procured abortion commits a mortal sin and is also automatically excommunicated, under canon 1398. Automatically excommunicated. Trivial? for a Catholic I would imagine humiliating and public.
Catholic Christian Article"

but wait there is more. Not happy with the above outcome they strive to influence your voting preferences.

"Any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral, commits the sin of heresy and incurs an automatic sentence of Voting for Politicians of excommunication.

In general, the moral law requires Catholic voters to vote for those candidates who oppose abortion over those who favor abortion. In every case, a Catholic should vote in such a way as to obtain as many restrictions on abortion as possible, and so as to obtain the end to legalized abortion as soon as possible."

and you say the above had no bearing on this woman's feelings of guilt.

[marjoramblues]

what stood out in this article for me were the words..................I am Catholic.

That is where her struggle was. Catholic teachings on abortion.

I agree that would be a major factor in where her struggle was. { It would be interesting to find out if that changed her religious belief }

However, we are talking about the present, and a different focus:

August 20th Renee writes :
http://reneedevesty.com/

I was raped when I was 19yrs old.
I became pregnant from being raped.
I had an abortion from being raped.

Today of all days, I boldly admit this. Today, I was unapologetic and unafraid. Today, the comments made by Republican Senate Nominee Todd Atkins that 'Victims of Legitimate Rape Don't Get Pregnant' were heard around rhe world and because of the blatant ignorance of the remark, I reiterate:

NO ONE except an actual rape survivor can comprehend the horror and terror of being raped...

...The Speakers Bureau at The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) contacted me to schedule an interview with Metro New York, a newspaper that publishes in New York City, Philadelphia & Boston. The article made the front page of the national online site.

People like Senate Nominee Todd Akins and those who support this biologically uninformed and denigrating thought process should not be allowed anywhere near the decision-making process for the rights of people of this country.

It’s this insensitivity to rape victims on a national platform that propels me to use my voice and speak out in support of survivors everywhere … and I assure you I won’t stop until this madness ceases.

[emphasis added]

[marjoramblues]

My immediate reaction is that her explanation proves my trying to explain that "innocent" people aren't capable of coping with life's diversity.

My second reaction is that the US have some pretty weird politicians, though of course with the whole world laughing at Sarah Palin (anyone seen Ironsky? I have) that's not really big news.

My third reaction is wonder at putting together of pieces as I've never really understood the process which leads to a person being so full of negative emotions after a rape (of course I understand the possibility, but never the full "process" as it's an alien experience for me).

Males get raped too. Are you saying you can't imagine how that would make you feel?

What is this focus around whether I can imagine it or not? Of course I can try to imagine it, but my imagination doesn't prove what it's like. [emphasis added]

I've never just been able to put the pieces together to get a coherent picture, how difficult is that to agree with? If you haven't experienced something yourself (and my life is very different from the given one here) you're not in a good position to make guessings about how it is directly, in reality, especially something as serious as this. But enough of this nonsense-questioning...

Lynn wrote:

Do you think that any woman would feel any different or not struggle with such a decision in these circumstances, irrespective of her religion?

Voice:
I don't think so. A little insecurity of course, but a "pill of regret" or an early abortion is an easy option for many women, and I largely think that for most people after being raped with pregnancy ensuing, at least if you are living an educated life with opportunities, do so without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid (usually because you have plans for your life or other things which clearly coincides with such a choice). Struggle is to exaggerate, at least for any women of the category I mentioned living in developed countries...


Me: What is being questioned are the consequences of not having imagination or empathy; or having faulty assumptions, based on a lack of knowledge. Not on the actual feelings of what it is like but not being able to comprehend the fact that there will be negative emotions following.

How did you reach your 'thoughts' or 'guessings' above ? About eg an 'easy option' and 'without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid' ?

This is what might be considered 'nonsense guessings' ! Imagination can obviously work in a variety of ways; all ways and results (process and product) need questioning...of which there can never be enough.

Edited to add emphases.

[marjoramblues]

M: You are correct, this one article proves nothing. You seem to have made a hasty generalisation about 'innocent people' which is not convincing. I see that your thoughts about 'innocence' have been discussed in another thread - perhaps time to draw them together into a more coherent argument, a thread of your own ?

Voice: {and no, won't make a thread about it because it's not a subject I like... that much, I've had bad experiences with the disturbing world of innocent folk too much}

Fair enough. Although it did seem to me that you rather had a bee in your bonnet about it

[Lynn]

I don't view her struggle as being Catholic teachings on abortion.

She obviously did as she said so.

What I picked up on this article were the statements.

I’m a Catholic, and I didn’t understand: How could this happen to me? I was innocent. I did nothing wrong and after her abortion she still struggles and says "twenty years of serving time for a crime I didn’t commit".

Lynn: A bit more of the original text, which I think is a bit of overkill, but does more context. After discovering she was pregnant from the rape, she does state she is a Catholic but does not mention religious struggle in her decision nor any religious implications resulting from it, fear guilt and shame are not exclusive to Catholics, but now she can voice her view that women should have the power over their own bodies.
Is the crime the rape or the termination or both?

"My whole worldview was challenged. I’m a Catholic, and I didn’t understand: How could this happen to me? I was innocent. I did nothing wrong. But I was overwhelmed by fear, guilt and shame. Just when I thought I might be able to push the ugliness of this savage act out of my mind, I realized I would never be able to escape. It would not let me go.

I was mentally, emotionally and spiritually broken, and the thought of what had resulted from this vile act took my self-hatred into another dimension. I wanted no memory of that night, would do anything possible to erase it in the hope that it would somehow ease the sick, disgusting feeling I got every time I looked in the mirror. I realized that in order to maintain what little sanity I had left, I had to terminate the pregnancy.

Six months after the rape, I dropped out of college and developed an eating disorder. I collapsed into alcohol abuse and had abusive relationships. It took me 12 years of trying to kill myself before I could actually verbalize to a trusted counselor what happened to me. I spent the next eight years trying to reverse the damage that was done.

Twenty years of serving time for a crime I didn’t commit.

Rep. Akin and those who argue about “legitimate” rape, you have no idea what you are talking about. You don’t know what it is like to have your sacredness ripped away, ferociously taken without your permission. A pregnancy resulting from rape is a reminder of violence, hatred and brutality forced upon your body. And to tell a woman who has gone through the horror of being raped – which can and does, in fact, result in pregnancy – that she again does not have the power or control to decide what happens to her body afterward is an outrage of epic proportions."


The Catholic Church's stance on abortion.

"Any Catholic who deliberately and knowingly obtains a procured abortion commits a mortal sin and is also automatically excommunicated, under canon 1398. Automatically excommunicated. Trivial? for a Catholic I would imagine humiliating and public.
Catholic Christian Article"

but wait there is more. Not happy with the above outcome they strive to influence your voting preferences.

"Any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral, commits the sin of heresy and incurs an automatic sentence of Voting for Politicians of excommunication.

In general, the moral law requires Catholic voters to vote for those candidates who oppose abortion over those who favor abortion. In every case, a Catholic should vote in such a way as to obtain as many restrictions on abortion as possible, and so as to obtain the end to legalized abortion as soon as possible."

and you say the above had no bearing on this woman's feelings of guilt.
Lynn: No, what I said was "I don't view her struggle as being Catholic teachings on abortion."
She went ahead with the termination - "took the decision to terminate the pregnancy to try to erase the experience from her memory and save her sanity. These factors obviously won over any possible struggle she may have had with regard to Catholic teachings on abortion."

[reasonvemotion]

If only it had ended there, for her. It was not so simple. Her torment went on for many years.

[The Voice of Time]

Lynn wrote:

Do you think that any woman would feel any different or not struggle with such a decision in these circumstances, irrespective of her religion?

Voice:
I don't think so. A little insecurity of course, but a "pill of regret" or an early abortion is an easy option for many women, and I largely think that for most people after being raped with pregnancy ensuing, at least if you are living an educated life with opportunities, do so without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid (usually because you have plans for your life or other things which clearly coincides with such a choice). Struggle is to exaggerate, at least for any women of the category I mentioned living in developed countries...


Me: What is being questioned are the consequences of not having imagination or empathy; or having faulty assumptions, based on a lack of knowledge. Not on the actual feelings of what it is like but not being able to comprehend the fact that there will be negative emotions following.

How did you reach your 'thoughts' or 'guessings' above ? About eg an 'easy option' and 'without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid' ?

This is what might be considered 'nonsense guessings' ! Imagination can obviously work in a variety of ways; all ways and results (process and product) need questioning...of which there can never be enough.

I guess based upon the world I live with. I've read and met people who have had no apparent major-problem with their abortion-choices. It's the general picture of the sum of all your personal experiences, like people you meet and things you read. My guess came from that little support that any significant amount of women in the given category or similar categories ever make serious (in that it's not heavily predetermined) judgement of whether to keep the baby because they've already gotten themselves a lot of reasons not to keep it and the temptation to keep it is not significantly present. My guessing is based upon ordinary situations (lack of condom, not rape), but to me this doesn't seem to complicate things, rather give the women more incentive to abort.

My evidence on the effects of Catholicism is more deep however, as this is something which has been a serious question for me before, and which I argue for and not merely guess with.

[marjoramblues]

Lynn wrote:

Do you think that any woman would feel any different or not struggle with such a decision in these circumstances, irrespective of her religion?

Voice:
I don't think so. A little insecurity of course, but a "pill of regret" or an early abortion is an easy option for many women, and I largely think that for most people after being raped with pregnancy ensuing, at least if you are living an educated life with opportunities, do so without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid (usually because you have plans for your life or other things which clearly coincides with such a choice). Struggle is to exaggerate, at least for any women of the category I mentioned living in developed countries...


Me: What is being questioned are the consequences of not having imagination or empathy; or having faulty assumptions, based on a lack of knowledge. Not on the actual feelings of what it is like but not being able to comprehend the fact that there will be negative emotions following.

How did you reach your 'thoughts' or 'guessings' above ? About eg an 'easy option' and 'without any problem at all, maybe not even considering the thought of keeping the kid' ?

This is what might be considered 'nonsense guessings' ! Imagination can obviously work in a variety of ways; all ways and results (process and product) need questioning...of which there can never be enough.

I guess based upon the world I live with. I've read and met people who have had no apparent major-problem with their abortion-choices. It's the general picture of the sum of all your personal experiences, like people you meet and things you read. My guess came from that little support that any significant amount of women in the given category or similar categories ever make serious (in that it's not heavily predetermined) judgement of whether to keep the baby because they've already gotten themselves a lot of reasons not to keep it and the temptation to keep it is not significantly present. My guessing is based upon ordinary situations (lack of condom, not rape), but to me this doesn't seem to complicate things, rather give the women more incentive to abort.

My evidence on the effects of Catholicism is more deep however, as this is something which has been a serious question for me before, and which I argue for and not merely guess with.

Thank you, Voice, this article then struck a major chord with you on that particular and deep level.

My perspective was different - not about the effects of Catholicism but how the author described her anger at the throw-away language used by 'ignorant' politicians. The difficulty, perhaps, lies in promoting understanding in others who may 'observe' wrongly - they assume that there is no 'apparent' problem...when it might be a case of cloudy vision. Not looking long, hard, or deep enough.

Thanks, reasonvemotion and all - most thought provoking...

[Kayla]

one thing that i noticed from sen akin's idiocy

suddenly normal men who would never describe themselves as feminists and who see no point in feminism, and radical feminists are suddenly on the same side on this issue

i mean even a lot of white republican men are like wtf

[prof]

... Senate candidate Rep. Todd Akin, Republican-Mo., created a stir when he said, “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” ...

Not you, reasonvemotion ---- but any reader of this:

If you live in the U.S.A. you may be a Republicanif you believe:

* Climate change is a liberal hoax.
* "Moderate" is a dirty word.
* Corporations are people too.
* Warren Buffet's secretary should pay taxes at a higher rate than he does.
* Creationism is a valid alternative to evolution.
* Extremely profitable oil companies should continue to receive government subsidies.
* Fox News is fair and balanced.
* Grover Norquist is a true statesman.
* Assault weapons are appropriate for self-defense.
* Barack Obama is a Muslim and/or a foreigner.
* The poor have too much money and the rich don't have enough.


You are a Democrat who ought to come to the voting booth and vote for the entire ticket if you believe:

+ We are all in this together.
+ Mitt Romney will stick it to working people; Barak Obama will stick by working people. He was left a total mess, and so far hasn't finished cleaning it up, but given a little more time he will get it done.
+ We all do better when we work together: when we cooperate, everyone is better off.
+ You would rather lift people up than wait for a trickle down on you.
+ You don't want to go back to reactionary conditions (when, for example, there were voting restrictions); you want to go forward to an ethical world.
We have come too far together to ever go back !

[KaydeeDID88]

i have a friend of mine that got pregnant from being raped and at the time and still feel as if that it was her decision to get an abortion. she did in fact get one and i totally respect her decision. myself as a woman would find it hard to bear and have a child that i knew was conceived out of rape.

[Ansiktsburk]

i have a friend of mine that got pregnant from being raped and at the time and still feel as if that it was her decision to get an abortion. she did in fact get one and i totally respect her decision. myself as a woman would find it hard to bear and have a child that i knew was conceived out of rape.

And as a man:
I cannot understand how some cultures seem to think that rape is considered something that should no be controlled by male avoidance.
Apart from that, I cannot say anything about the abortion thing. I am far from catholic, but what's in there is to some extent alive. Tough decision, even if the choice is probably, as said above, quite obvious in a western country.