Scientists who believe in God

[chaz wyman]

but I bet the survey was only in America.

Correct

Where are you getting these numbers?

[chaz wyman]

As god can mean anything from a white guy in the clouds who cares about what we eat, and who we sleep with TO a vague impersonal organising principle of the Universe, it does not mean much to offer numbers of scientists that are supposed to believe in god. God is a vague and diffuse concept.

It is probably more interesting to ask about the yield of 'atheists' in specific professions against the yield of of atheists in the general population.
We find some interesting facts based on a meta-analysis of decades of research. [Atheists A Psychological Profile, Ben Beit-Hallahmi (2007), in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, Martin (ed)]

There are much fewer atheists amongst criminals in prison populations, and there are more atheists in the thinking professions.

Atheists are more liberal and tolerant, less neurotic; more willing to help the poor; more likely to be a member of the intellectual elite; more likely to be a scientist, and be one of the most eminent; more likely to be ethnically Jewish.

It is also interesting that being unaffiliated to any church is a better predictor of a law-abiding citizen. And the yields go up markedly in the categories above when you ask about church affiliation rather than "atheism."

[chaz wyman]

Scientists' belief in God varies by discipline

"Study debunks notion that science is incompatible with religion

About two-thirds of scientists believe in God, according to a new survey that uncovered stark differences based on the type of research they do.

The study, would appear to debunk the oft-held notion that science is incompatible with religion.

Those in the social sciences are more likely to believe in God and attend religious services than researchers in the natural sciences, the study found.

The opposite had been expected.

Nearly 38 percent of natural scientists -- people in disciplines like physics, chemistry and biology -- said they do not believe in God. Only 31 percent of the social scientists do not believe.

In the new study, Rice University sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund surveyed 1,646 faculty members at elite research universities, asking 36 questions about belief and spiritual practices.

"Based on previous research, we thought that social scientists would be less likely to practice religion than natural scientists are, but our data showed just the opposite," Ecklund said.
.
Some stand-out statistics: 41 percent of the biologists don't believe, while that figure is just 27 percent among political scientists.

In separate work at the University of Chicago, 76 percent of doctors said they believed in God and 59 percent believe in some sort of afterlife.

"Many scientists see themselves as having a spirituality not attached to a particular religious tradition. Some scientists who don't believe in God see themselves as very spiritual people. They have a way outside of themselves that they use to understand the meaning of life."

All this shows is that people live with contradictions all their lives.
And that science and religion do not occupy the same conceptual space

[Kayla]

Religion, at least the main-stream ones in western societies, e.g., Christianity, is incompatible with science. For the Christian, knowledge may be obtained through supernatural means.

religious knowledge can be obtained through supernatural means

scientific knowledge cannot be obtained through supernatural means

there is no contradiction

For the Christian, the bible is the word of god and the source of moral authority.

it is the word of god not dictation from god

the idea that it is must be understood literally is extrabiblical

What we have is a conflict between a childish world-view of magical fairytales, versus those who want to find real knowledge.

if you ever find yourself in the american south drop by for a service at a pentacostal church or any african american church

atheists have been known to quite despite themselves to start jumping up and down and praising the lord

this does not normally turn them into believers but many of them walk away knowing that there are things that do not fit neatly into their worldview - i am told this is a very disturbing experience but not one those who had it would want to unhave

[John]

What we have is a conflict between a childish world-view of magical fairytales, versus those who want to find real knowledge.

if you ever find yourself in the american south drop by for a service at a pentacostal church or any african american church

atheists have been known to quite despite themselves to start jumping up and down and praising the lord

this does not normally turn them into believers but many of them walk away knowing that there are things that do not fit neatly into their worldview - i am told this is a very disturbing experience but not one those who had it would want to unhave

This is more likely explained with psychology than anything supernatural.

[chaz wyman]

[
if you ever find yourself in the american south drop by for a service at a pentacostal church or any african american church

atheists have been known to quite despite themselves to start jumping up and down and praising the lord

this does not normally turn them into believers but many of them walk away knowing that there are things that do not fit neatly into their worldview - i am told this is a very disturbing experience but not one those who had it would want to unhave

The !Kung San of the Kalhari go into a trance to 'heal' people.
Many religions have similar experiences, and so do some non religious contexts.
What is your point?

[reasonvemotion]

Forged

the trend is that the higher educated a scientist is the more likely they are to be an atheist

Chaz Wyman

Atheists are more liberal and tolerant, less neurotic; more willing to help the poor; more likely to be a member of the intellectual elite; more likely to be a scientist, and be one of the most eminent; more likely to be ethnically Jewish.

How alike they are.

Arrogance personified.

[reasonvemotion]

"Contrary to the claims of the new atheists, most scientists do not necessarily see religion and science as always being in conflict. Rice University sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund and coauthors studied the responses of scientists at 21 elite U.S. universities, finding that only 15% thought that science and religion were always in conflict. About half expressed some form of religious affiliation.


Conclusion

It is true that scientists believe less in the existence of God than the general population of the United States. However, the recent study by Ecklund, and Scheitle reveals that the most important factors in belief were related to upbringing and family status, and not area of expertise. The fact that social scientists as well as those in the natural sciences expressed nearly the same disbelief in God suggests that rejection of God's existence is not a result of knowledge in any particular area of expertise. It is likely that those who have rejected religious morality (i.e., those who were cohabiting) wanted to justify their behavior by saying that there was very little truth in any religion. The conclusion by the authors:


"Instead, particular demographic factors, such as age, marital status, and presence of children in the household, seem to explain some of the religious differences among academic scientists... Most important, respondents who were raised in religious homes, especially those raised in homes where religion was important are most likely to be religious at present."

[Notvacka]

All this shows is that people live with contradictions all their lives.
And that science and religion do not occupy the same conceptual space

Amen to that!

[chaz wyman]

Forged

the trend is that the higher educated a scientist is the more likely they are to be an atheist

Chaz Wyman

Atheists are more liberal and tolerant, less neurotic; more willing to help the poor; more likely to be a member of the intellectual elite; more likely to be a scientist, and be one of the most eminent; more likely to be ethnically Jewish.

How alike they are.

Arrogance personified.

How is being liberal and tolerant "arrogant"?
In my experience there are no more arrogant people than those that believe they are the special children of an ultimate being.

[chaz wyman]

"Contrary to the claims of the new atheists, most scientists do not necessarily see religion and science as always being in conflict. Rice University sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund and coauthors studied the responses of scientists at 21 elite U.S. universities, finding that only 15% thought that science and religion were always in conflict. About half expressed some form of religious affiliation.


Conclusion

It is true that scientists believe less in the existence of God than the general population of the United States. However, the recent study by Ecklund, and Scheitle reveals that the most important factors in belief were related to upbringing and family status, and not area of expertise. The fact that social scientists as well as those in the natural sciences expressed nearly the same disbelief in God suggests that rejection of God's existence is not a result of knowledge in any particular area of expertise. It is likely that those who have rejected religious morality (i.e., those who were cohabiting) wanted to justify their behavior by saying that there was very little truth in any religion. The conclusion by the authors:


"Instead, particular demographic factors, such as age, marital status, and presence of children in the household, seem to explain some of the religious differences among academic scientists... Most important, respondents who were raised in religious homes, especially those raised in homes where religion was important are most likely to be religious at present."

All this shows is that people live with contradictions all their lives.
And that science and religion do not occupy the same conceptual space.

The same is true with me.
Being an atheist does not involve me in being a scientific materialist.
You might as well compare atheism to eating meat as comparing it to science.

[ForgedinHell]

Religion, at least the main-stream ones in western societies, e.g., Christianity, is incompatible with science. For the Christian, knowledge may be obtained through supernatural means.

religious knowledge can be obtained through supernatural means

scientific knowledge cannot be obtained through supernatural means

there is no contradiction

For the Christian, the bible is the word of god and the source of moral authority.

it is the word of god not dictation from god

the idea that it is must be understood literally is extrabiblical

What we have is a conflict between a childish world-view of magical fairytales, versus those who want to find real knowledge.

if you ever find yourself in the american south drop by for a service at a pentacostal church or any african american church

atheists have been known to quite despite themselves to start jumping up and down and praising the lord

this does not normally turn them into believers but many of them walk away knowing that there are things that do not fit neatly into their worldview - i am told this is a very disturbing experience but not one those who had it would want to unhave

More than likely those people were not real atheists. Why venture into such a venue in the first place without believing in a god? There is zero credible evidence for the existence of any supernatural being. But, if you believe that Christians have some magic power, then here is my channel: Get a billion-plus Christians together to pray that a person's finger gets regrown. I'll bet money that the finger does not grow back.

[Kayla]

More than likely those people were not real atheists.

interesting choice of words there

do real atheists differ from other kinds of atheists in the same way as mutatis mutandis real christians differ from other kinds of christians

maybe there is something to the view that atheism is yet another kind of faith yes?

Why venture into such a venue in the first place without believing in a god?

various reasons

if you find yourself living in a small town in somewhere in the bible belt there not much else to do on sunday morning and all your friends and neighbors are going and they will probably invite you so boredom and politeness will motivate some people

if you are a houseguest and you are in the house on sunday morning you will be invited to come to church with your hosts

if your hosts are fairly normal people no one will expect you to change your beliefs or anything or pressure you to do so - there is more religious tolerance even in texas than many people realize

i went to a synagogue a couple of times when i had sleepovers with a jewish friend it was pretty much a given that if i am there on saturday morning i am coming to the synagogue with them its no big deal

and besides if you are really are an atheist its not like richard dawkins knows all that you do and will strike you dead or anything just cause you went to church

There is zero credible evidence for the existence of any supernatural being. But, if you believe that Christians have some magic power, then here is my channel: Get a billion-plus Christians together to pray that a person's finger gets regrown. I'll bet money that the finger does not grow back.

not sure where to start with this one

i am not sure what you mean by credible evidence

where i live people talk to god all the time and much of the time god talks back

are you saying i ought to disregard my own experience

no fingers do not grow back even with prayer

if prayer is effective it is effective at improving chances of the possible rather than in bringing about the impossible

why would god do things that way that i do not know

[Grendel]

Atheists are more liberal and tolerant, less neurotic; more willing to help the poor; more likely to be a member of the intellectual elite; more likely to be a scientist, and be one of the most eminent; more likely to be ethnically Jewish.

Left wingers not liberals are more likely to be atheists, new atheists are among the least tolerant people there is, atheists do little for the poor motivated by atheism whereas Christian charities do a lot. The intellectual elite? Is this a joke,? Bunch of poncey middle class cunts up their own arses at wine parties. What's so great about being a scientist? Oh I forgot, they're the new priesthood to new atheists. Israel doesn't even come close to a European country on surveys about atheism.

[ForgedinHell]

More than likely those people were not real atheists.

interesting choice of words there

do real atheists differ from other kinds of atheists in the same way as mutatis mutandis real christians differ from other kinds of christians

maybe there is something to the view that atheism is yet another kind of faith yes?

Why venture into such a venue in the first place without believing in a god?

various reasons

if you find yourself living in a small town in somewhere in the bible belt there not much else to do on sunday morning and all your friends and neighbors are going and they will probably invite you so boredom and politeness will motivate some people

if you are a houseguest and you are in the house on sunday morning you will be invited to come to church with your hosts

if your hosts are fairly normal people no one will expect you to change your beliefs or anything or pressure you to do so - there is more religious tolerance even in texas than many people realize

i went to a synagogue a couple of times when i had sleepovers with a jewish friend it was pretty much a given that if i am there on saturday morning i am coming to the synagogue with them its no big deal

and besides if you are really are an atheist its not like richard dawkins knows all that you do and will strike you dead or anything just cause you went to church

There is zero credible evidence for the existence of any supernatural being. But, if you believe that Christians have some magic power, then here is my channel: Get a billion-plus Christians together to pray that a person's finger gets regrown. I'll bet money that the finger does not grow back.

not sure where to start with this one

i am not sure what you mean by credible evidence

where i live people talk to god all the time and much of the time god talks back

are you saying i ought to disregard my own experience

no fingers do not grow back even with prayer

if prayer is effective it is effective at improving chances of the possible rather than in bringing about the impossible

why would god do things that way that i do not know

What I am stating is that I seriously doubt that they were atheists. There is nothing that will happen in any church to even remotely suggest that a god exists, that there is some supernatural power at work, or that any of the participants have access to any secret knowledge. As an atheist, I find any religious service quite boring and can't wait for it to end. Attending funerals to hear about non-existent deities and blah, blah, blah is torture for the rational mind.

Prayer is not effective at all. If it were, then actuaries would have figured it out long ago and would have given a "prayer discount" for something. And yes, your own "personal experiences" should be disregarded if you believe that you have ever experienced anything supernatural, or the existence of any god. It's all pure nonsense. Or, you can get together with a billion other Christians, pray, and see if you can grow a finger back. We both know that when prayer power is put to any such test, it will fail.