A Philosophy of Mind

Diomedes71 · Post by **Diomedes71** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:37 pm

Hey John,
the point is it is being passed of by this 'BLOGGER' as origonal material.
Without attributing!
Somebody else hinted at it in the about BB posts.
So I randomly googled and hit the phrase as stated attributed to Plato.

Arising_uk
I've eased on the 'BOT' theory, is that corect?
Recalling reading her hissy fit over Amod changing the location of her entry I now have the thought that she is using the site for a personal 'BLOG'.
This is of detrement to anybody who is unaware of her nature as they could post for a discussion of a topic and her endless non-interactive rant would consign the post to history. Since few will read to far back in a thread. This disways posts, affects membership and impacts all members... SHE SHOULD BE REMOVED...

Regards

Diomedes71 · Post by **Diomedes71** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:41 pm

It's better to fail in origonality, than to succeed in imitation

Herman Melville

Arising_uk · Post by **Arising_uk** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:55 pm

Diomedes71 wrote:YES, I forgot the name of the test, that's exactly my point, I believe BB is possibly an attempt to use us to pass the turing test. Everything I have read in her posts and that of others, mainly non-coherence of topics and failure to adequately engage with meaningful responses suggest this is a strong possiblity. I am not alone in my observations.

We are all alone in our observations grasshopper, its just that we can all look at the same things and talk about them

Hate to tell you but only geeks are still writing Turing testers and I doubt(or maybe not!) they'd hit this site.

But then how would I know?
Well you would either figure it out for yourself, wait until the embassing fact of your being duped was confessed to you, employ your own tests for the hypothosis, or wait till somebody pointed it out to you and if you agree then you would KNOW.

Sorry, I was unclear. My idea was that if an AI could pass the Turing Test then I'd not know unless it or somone told me so. As the TT is based upon my not knowing if I'm communicating with a program or a human and if the AI was TT capable then the least I should expect is no suspicision upon mine or anyone elses part. What I would not bother doing would be to not spend time exploring the parameters of said bot? Communication is all after all.

Well you don't really know me enough to contradict me in my assertion that i don't mean to cause offense. I can assure you I don't, I cannot prove it to you. I can only offer my words.

You are right and I apologise in questioning your motives. It was because in my life the words, "I do not mean to cause..." invariably precede the occurance of "...".

I hoped to engage with thoughtful people on here and I thank you for your 'posts'.

I thank you for yours.

With regard to BB in a search for truth I seriously consider the chance i may be wrong about the turing test thing so alternative explinations in my mind only reside in autism(which i probably don't understand at all it's just me using a word to describe a brain which is working significantly different to the norm. and UNABLE to interact in conventional expected ways), if you can tell me the corect word then I'd be delighted.

I take it you've not read The 'Germans' yet?

There is another option and that is plain old I'm superior and going to be plain old ignorant complex. Have you any other explinations?

I have my own but don't understand this bit "...that is plain old I'm superior and going to be plain old ignorant complex."?

I don't Know a great deal about the feild but I know there are a lot of people working in the feild and they have competitions to try to fool people by this kind of thing. May be there is prize money involved.
Of course if I'm correct the writer of the program writer will not give up his rouse lightly especially if the only person to suggest the idea recieves no backing.

LOL This thread you are reading is only half of the thread we left behind when we came here. I think you can still check the Archives if you wish

If it is a competition then I think the human part of the BB communication deserves to win it for perseverance over time.

This AI TT capable UK_Bot bids you adieu!

Arising_uk · Post by **Arising_uk** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:07 pm

Diomedes71 wrote:It's better to fail in origonality, than to succeed in imitation
Herman Melville

I prefer. It's better to succeed in imitation and then be original, fail or not.
a_uk

Diomedes71 · Post by **Diomedes71** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:14 pm

Hi _uk

You are of course correct... in a larger context we begin by imitation. But one should always attribute! No?

Regards

Diomedes71 · Post by **Diomedes71** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:23 pm

Appology Accepted and thank you.

I have my own but don't understand this bit "...that is plain old I'm superior and going to be plain old ignorant complex."?

As you or Astronaut ( i know thats wrong )

said deliberate obfuscation .. bla bla.. But all i was saying failure to interact by a normal person is ignorance and delusions of grandeur.

Regards

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:40 am

I borrowed all that is best in knowledge that enumerates anything, which gives to truth, which falls under truth. My approach is partly practical and partly theoretical. My hope I intended to further a constructive and deductive philosophical discussion directed to the first principle of true being. This starts purely by the power of reason.

Reason is the ruin and overthrow of the ego because the ego everything is for self. Descartes looked at reason as a path, or more so properly speaking, a highway of pain, uncertainty, always sees nothing in the end, from the fact that nothing is their end

When the realization of reason appears vainness flees. Ignorance only hungers after self-advantages and suffer at the hands of reason.

Diomedes71 · Post by **Diomedes71** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:33 am

REASON,

Reason engages with others, answers questions for clarifications, attempts to be understood by making clear statements and explaining the deductions made.

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:00 pm

If we start on the discovery of philosophy by the light of reason without any aid of senses, and persevere we will arrive at absolute good. In every consciousness there is the greatest good because reason assures us that what we do is truth.

Reason is the unity of knowledge and truth, goes beyond a negative outlook to a positive one.

Press forward with what is truth. Socrates believed as a child, we know nothing, and not knowing anything started with a clean slate accepting anything at all given until knowledge’s gentle hand came to aid us and lift up to understanding.

Philosophy my dearest friends can any thing present any greater blessing than this? We live in light happy companions in this pilgrimage. The philosopher is surely to be just and gentle, and have good quick memory, noble, gracious, the friend of truth, justice, courageous, and temperate. The love of wisdom lodges in the philosophers’ heart, its dearest friends it cannot refuse anything, even with the arguments of shame and reason.
When in my early twenties it came to me I was a fool and that I must get some understanding, which comes only by slaving for it.

We like everything else in Nature have a relationship with the earth just as the sun is a means for the earth or in each line in the earth crystal is a means for inherent form.

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:06 pm

If we start on the discovery of philosophy by the light of reason without any aid of senses, and persevere we will arrive at absolute good. In every consciousness there is the greatest good because reason assures us that what we do is truth.

Reason is the unity of knowledge and truth, goes beyond a negative outlook to a positive one.

Press forward with what is truth. Socrates believed as a child, we know nothing, and not knowing anything started with a clean slate accepting anything at all given until knowledge’s gentle hand came to aid us and lift up to understanding.

Philosophy my dearest friends can any thing present any greater blessing than this? We live in light happy companions in this pilgrimage. The philosopher is surely to be just and gentle, and have good quick memory, noble, gracious, the friend of truth, justice, courageous, and temperate. The love of wisdom lodges in the philosophers’ heart, its dearest friends it cannot refuse anything, even with the arguments of shame and reason.
When in my early twenties it came to me I was a fool and that I must get some understanding, which comes only by slaving for it.

We like everything else in Nature have a relationship with the earth just as the sun is a means for the earth or in each line in the earth crystal is a means for inherent form.

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:47 pm

None of worldly things trouble purpose neither sight nor sound reason is nothing else than pure ideality cannot stand by itself has no support, no inherent standpoint, just simply ideal.

Truth can be seen only through a glass dimly, whereas reason takes the glass dimly and turns around into a definite appearance. World spirit comes into being in reason, it makes one aware of its extremities, proclaims certainty and assurance of each true being.

In reason there appears the first positive character which self-consciousness is aware of the bare and simple truth; know thy self.

Socrates ideas are what is happening now, believed that in order to have the best government men and women and children must be equally free and participate in all aspects of government, in war, courts, education and so many things that we are currently benefit from. I find this all so interesting we are all playing a part towards some supreme universal purpose that was predicted by Socrates.

Arising_uk · Post by **Arising_uk** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:12 pm

Diomedes71 wrote:...You are of course correct... in a larger context we begin by imitation. But one should always attribute! No?
Regards

Hi Diomedes,
A good question and one that could be in Ethics or Aesthetics I assume. One should always ascribe quotes but I think it is a fine line between reading something and making it your own or reading something and repeating it. I suppose you could always say "Plato said, Wittgenstein said, etc" to solve the problem and I do think BB does this every now and then. The rest of the time its her thoughts upon what shes read and understood, confusing tho' they can be. Although she could still be a bot but like I said it makes no difference to me as I like most Language.
a_uk

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:15 pm

Doubting the truth of things, Descartes wrote, if only he had ceased from thinking, even if all the rest of what he had ever imagined had really existed, he would have no reason for thinking that he had existed. Descartes thought that he was a substance the whole essence or nature of which is to think, and does it depend on any material thing; so that this "me," that is to say, the mind by which he is. If body were not, the mind would not cease to be what it is.

"I think, therefore I am,” stated Descartes, he was so certain and so assured that all the most exaggerated ideas brought forward by skeptics are incapable of shaking it.

Knowledge is not to be found anywhere in the field of opinion or subjective views, it is not a matter of artistic turns of
phrases, indirectness, or half utterances but consists of an open, unambiguous, meaningful, and purposeful demonstration.

Philosophy has been around for many centuries by the best minds who have ever lived, and I have not enough presumption to hope to fare better than other philosopher have done. Also, considering how many conflicting opinions, there can never be more than one, which is true,

Philosophy lights up the chaos reverses the confusion is clear distinct ideas that arises from the distinction of the visible and the intelligible.

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:38 pm

Being here gives so much provision in sifting out all the questions embraced in philosophy. If philosophy were mere representation of opinions then it would be a very tiresome study. Thus we must have a willingness to give profound thought exalt an infinitude of ideas and truth, not superficial rhetoric.

To develop into anything is through struggle, the chain that keeps you in bondage struggle but this is how to succeed. This is how success is attained through purely unconditional sacrifice.

The desire for philosophy this was not my choice: I was directed to seek out its own intimate complex elemental law. Like lilies, willows, fig trees have their own particular bug or insect whose nature is restricted to each plant. This particular restricted sphere is part of reason a practical relationship to the inner urge or need of outside world.

What forms the outer configuration of being is called feeling the crystal of vitality. Thus the skull is the center of feeling, the chest is of irritability and the abdomen is of reproduction are the mechanical sphere of feeling.

Feelings prevail over reason and that is the struggle, much like the struggle of division. As Plato’s charioteer drives the pair of winged horses into the sky, one of them is reason and the other is not. The powering of them both gives a great deal of trouble to us if fed upon ignorance and meanness but if we fed on knowledge, beauty, and goodness soars upward.

To be a true philosopher and not a sham desires must be strong like a brook, which has been drawn off into another canal.

Barbara Brooks · Post by **Barbara Brooks** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:47 pm

bus2bondi,

Your courage makes you fearless your wisdom makes you wise, but your honesty does the utmost to maintain harmony intact of all the notes of the scale.

I maintain courage to be this sort of saving power over false and real dangers. Under all circumstances does not lose this courage. It is a mightier agent than any soda or lye; or by sorrow, fear, and desire, the mightiest of all other solvents for washing the soul. Do you agree?

I mean that courage is a kind of salvation. Socrates gives an illustration by using dyers when they want to dye wool for making the true sea-purple, begin by selecting their white color first; this they prepare and dress with much care and pains, in order that the white ground may take the purple hue in full perfection. The dyeing then proceeds; and whatever is dyed in this manner becomes a fixed color, and no washing either with lye or without them can take away the bloom. Courage is this too it defends under all circumstances that opinion about the nature of things to be feared and not to be.

This is what Socrates termed courage, indelibly fixed by their nurture and training, not to be washed away by such potent lye as pleasure --mightier agent far in washing the soul than any soda or lye; or by sorrow, fear, and desire, the mightiest of all other solvents. I called courage, this sort of universal saving power of true opinion in conformity with rules about real and false dangers,

BB