He Slit His Childrens' Throats

[tbieter]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

[ForgedinHell]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

It's a tragedy. But, making a circus out of torturing the guy, that will not add any comfort to those who were murdered, or who suffer their loss.

[Thundril]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

"Justified" is inevitably, and entirely, a matter of opinion.
"Would the torture of the perpetrator make anything in this world any better than it is now?" might be worth pondering. To this I would say 'Probably not, except in the minds of people who would derive pleasure from the spectacle. Which doesn't include me'.

[Arising_uk]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

To what purpose?

[tbieter]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

To what purpose?

deterrence of others.

[Arising_uk]

Never worked in the past and neither has the death penalty.

[artisticsolution]

Never worked in the past and neither has the death penalty.

Neither has a long jail sentence. Why not give the criminal the option of being put to death or remaining in a cel for the rest of his life? It seems like a practical solution as I am sure there are some who would choose death and it would be less expensive than feeding and housing them for a lifetime as well as free up room in over crowded prisons. Maybe we could even turn some of the prisons into rehab facilities for people who were convicted of drug related crimes.

[Arising_uk]

Never worked in the past and neither has the death penalty.

Neither has a long jail sentence. Why not give the criminal the option of being put to death or remaining in a cel for the rest of his life? It seems like a practical solution as I am sure there are some who would choose death and it would be less expensive than feeding and housing them for a lifetime as well as free up room in over crowded prisons. Maybe we could even turn some of the prisons into rehab facilities for people who were convicted of drug related crimes.

Sorry!? You want to give them relief from spending the rest of their lives considering the consequence of their actions?

If you want to free-up prison space and reduce drug-related crime then legalise and tax 'drugs' and stop applying ridiculous morality to such issues, if not then ban alcohol and cigarettes.

You want to reduce the prison population? Make sentences reducible upon academic qualification. Not sure how it works in the States, colour appears to be a main factor, but over here the majority of the prison population are innumerate and illiterate and I think there is causation involved.

[artisticsolution]

A:Sorry!? You want to give them relief from spending the rest of their lives considering the consequence of their actions?

AS: Yes, why not? I have no way of knowing if they deserve punishment or medical attention that is beyond our current knowledge. I do not know if they committed an action because they are 'evil' or because they are insane. If they are insane then I don't think we can blame them for their disease...but at the same time I don't think they can be set free to harm again. Not only that...but I don't see why they should have to endure any consequences if they are ill if they don't want. Why should I torture them by making them live if they do not want to? Isn't it more humane to allow them to die if they desire to die? I would say this of anybody though...criminal or not. I don't see why committing suicide is against the law. Seems like it is not anyone's business whether someone chooses to live or die....but that is another debate I suppose....

A:If you want to free-up prison space and reduce drug-related crime then legalise and tax 'drugs' and stop applying ridiculous morality to such issues, if not then ban alcohol and cigarettes.

AS: I agree....but I think it would be irresponsible to legalize drugs without also having rehab places for the millions of people who have addictions...as I believe these addictions are a disease and not simply a matter of will.

A:You want to reduce the prison population? Make sentences reducible upon academic qualification. Not sure how it works in the States, colour appears to be a main factor, but over here the majority of the prison population are innumerate and illiterate and I think there is causation involved.

AS: I don't understand...do you think that crime is something that is committed by the uneducated only? I don't know if that is true....but maybe if being uneducated = being poor. I think there is a difference in criminal activity....the insane (who commit horrible crimes against humanity...murder and the like) and crimes committed because of circumstance (being poor or less fortunate). The crimes that are committed by the less fortunate are here to stay. Even if all were educated...there would still be crime...because of the nature of the have's and have not's. The haves will always create a world of have not's....not matter if they changed it to be all short people are less than (or whatever) they have to have a world like this in order to feel superior. You will have this dynamic no matter what system you set up...it is human behavoir I think.

[Kayla]

just put him in with general population in prison and tell other prisoners what he did

[Thundril]

Throwing criminals to lynch mobs comprised entirely of convicted criminals does not really move us forward on the old civilisation-scale, does it?
Encouraging convicted criminals to believe that they have society's approval for taking out their anger, showing off their machismo, and deflecting their attention from their own crimes by acting out disgust at worse ones; you really think this helps us any? You really think it helps the criminals to reform, the 'justice' system to estimate appropriate sentencing, or even the bereaved to come to terms with their loss?
Prison culture is part of the problem of crime, not part of the solution.

[Arising_uk]

AS: Yes, why not? I have no way of knowing if they deserve punishment or medical attention that is beyond our current knowledge. I do not know if they committed an action because they are 'evil' or because they are insane. If they are insane then I don't think we can blame them for their disease...but at the same time I don't think they can be set free to harm again. Not only that...but I don't see why they should have to endure any consequences if they are ill if they don't want. Why should I torture them by making them live if they do not want to? Isn't it more humane to allow them to die if they desire to die? I would say this of anybody though...criminal or not. I don't see why committing suicide is against the law. Seems like it is not anyone's business whether someone chooses to live or die....but that is another debate I suppose....

A_uk: Why should we accede to their wishes and desires?

AS: I agree....but I think it would be irresponsible to legalize drugs without also having rehab places for the millions of people who have addictions...as I believe these addictions are a disease and not simply a matter of will.

A_uk: They are a matter of choice. All take drugs with a positive intention in mind. Rehab does not work unless you can satisfy that intention. I see no reason to impose rehab. If they do nothing wrong then they can take drugs to their hearts content is my opinion. The major problem with drugs is that they are illegal and as such create criminality. I'd have thought Americans would have learnt this lesson from prohibition.

AS: I don't understand...do you think that crime is something that is committed by the uneducated only? I don't know if that is true....but maybe if being uneducated = being poor. I think there is a difference in criminal activity....the insane (who commit horrible crimes against humanity...murder and the like) and crimes committed because of circumstance (being poor or less fortunate). The crimes that are committed by the less fortunate are here to stay. Even if all were educated...there would still be crime...because of the nature of the have's and have not's. The haves will always create a world of have not's....not matter if they changed it to be all short people are less than (or whatever) they have to have a world like this in order to feel superior. You will have this dynamic no matter what system you set up...it is human behavoir I think.

A_uk: Depends upon what your society values is my guess. If you are judged solely by what you have-not then I guess what you describe will be true. I also don't think violence will go away but my comment was about my country as I'm not sure about yours but our prisons appear to be full of the illiterate and I think there a causation not just a correlation. Maybe your prisons are full of the literate and educated, if so then you have a real problem.

[artisticsolution]

A_uk: Why should we accede to their wishes and desires?

AS: Why shouldn't we? I think it is the reasonable thing to do. It may be more practical than what we are currently doing which is take care of them for a lifetime. If they wish to die would that not be a practical solution ...at least a little less costly for the government? Are you saying that you would rather see them suffer? Now don't get me wrong...I am angry when such horror happens...and if it happened to me or someone I loved I would probably want revenge and want the person to suffer a fate worse than death...but that is just being human I think. It doesn't get to the real cause of terrible crimes such as murder. In all reality, we have no idea why such crimes are committed...if they are not committed because of "evil" and instead are committed because of an illness of the mind or brain....then I see no reason to prolong their suffering if they don't want to live. And I see no reason to put them to death because I want revenge. If they are sick...then my feelings about their 'act of evil' is not based on common sense...but more based on my own rage. Is that how we should punish those who may be less fortunate than ourselves?

A_uk: They are a matter of choice. All take drugs with a positive intention in mind. Rehab does not work unless you can satisfy that intention. I see no reason to impose rehab. If they do nothing wrong then they can take drugs to their hearts content is my opinion. The major problem with drugs is that they are illegal and as such create criminality. I'd have thought Americans would have learnt this lesson from prohibition.

AS: Did I say I think we should 'impose' rehab? I don't think it should be imposed. I think it should be there for those who want it though. Also, even though illegal drugs may cause criminality does not mean that legalizing them would solve all problems. Even when the US legalized alcohol again...it did not stop some people from becoming alcoholics. There is just no telling who is going to have a problem with addiction.


A_uk: Depends upon what your society values is my guess. If you are judged solely by what you have-not then I guess what you describe will be true. I also don't think violence will go away but my comment was about my country as I'm not sure about yours but our prisons appear to be full of the illiterate and I think there a causation not just a correlation. Maybe your prisons are full of the literate and educated, if so then you have a real problem.

AS:You have that many illiterate in your country?! I don't understand...are you saying that some kids are not allowed an education or that they are not intelligent enough to learn or what? I had never considered that people in prison here are illiterate...but maybe they are. I think with our elementary school system ...the little ones at least...are taken care of and most can read...the exception would be the poor dyslexic kids...perhaps...but I am ignorant in that area...as I don't know anyone who has gone to prison except for an uncle of mine who was a heroin addict. But he was intelligent and knew how to read. I am curious if anyone knows the statistics.

But the real question I have is, why do you say if our prisons are full of the literate and educated we have a real problem? Are you THAT sure that your theory is correct? What happens if all in your country are educated to your heart's content and you still have people in prison? Do you think you might be being a little naive by thinking there would be no one in prison if all were educated? And do you think that American's are so vastly different from the people of your country, that we have become no more than a cartoon nation of non human beings? Just asking because I am blown over by your response. It seems so far fetched...militant...sort of like a tea bagger only on the opposite side of the spectrum.

[chaz wyman]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

What do you mean torture?
On what grounds?
Would it make you feel better?

[chaz wyman]

Upon conviction of guilt for the deaths, is the torture of the father justified?
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... cities.com

To what purpose?

deterrence of others.

Are you going to make a spectacle of it? Maybe we should televise having his eye lids removed whilst we extract different parts of his body and cook them on a bar-b-q or feed them to dogs raw?

In the end we would make violence more acceptable and probably increase the violence in society.

Are you advocating this for all criminals? Or have you in mind a special case for this man?