Scientific Facts In The Quran

[Khalid]

Not as much of an anomaly as you would like to think. If the Book is the WORD of God then you being religious ought to follow it to the letter. If you don't believe it is the word of god then why the hell are you a Christian anyway? If you can pick and choose , what value is ANY of that Book?

That's right , if you want to live with independent values then why do you belong to a religion telling you what's right and wrong ? But in case you believe in God , then you have to follow his rules . Alcohol is forbidden , then it's forbidden . fornication is forbidden , then it's forbidden .

[lennartack]

Not as much of an anomaly as you would like to think. If the Book is the WORD of God then you being religious ought to follow it to the letter. If you don't believe it is the word of god then why the hell are you a Christian anyway? If you can pick and choose , what value is ANY of that Book?

The Bible is usually not considered the word of God, and I think most Christians don't even believe it is the literal word of the apostles since most new testament books appeared slightly to late for that to be possible. That bible is of value for the lessons that can be taken from it and its cultural-historic relevance (which is why in the western world people choose to be christian). Of course you can pick and choose, but why does that matter?

[chaz wyman]

Not as much of an anomaly as you would like to think. If the Book is the WORD of God then you being religious ought to follow it to the letter. If you don't believe it is the word of god then why the hell are you a Christian anyway? If you can pick and choose , what value is ANY of that Book?

The Bible is usually not considered the word of God,

Wrong. But if so - see second option.

and I think most Christians don't even believe it is the literal word of the apostles since most new testament books appeared slightly to late for that to be possible.

Wrong again for the majority, but see second option.

That bible is of value for the lessons that can be taken from it and its cultural-historic relevance (which is why in the western world people choose to be christian).

yeah - so is the Lord of the RIngs, Das Kapital and Mein Kampf - what's your point here?


Of course you can pick and choose, but why does that matter?

Dah, oh so very dah!

PS - See Kahlid's response to the same post.
and mine's a pint... of Scotch!

[Khalid]

Not as much of an anomaly as you would like to think. If the Book is the WORD of God then you being religious ought to follow it to the letter. If you don't believe it is the word of god then why the hell are you a Christian anyway? If you can pick and choose , what value is ANY of that Book?

The Bible is usually not considered the word of God, and I think most Christians don't even believe it is the literal word of the apostles since most new testament books appeared slightly to late for that to be possible. That bible is of value for the lessons that can be taken from it and its cultural-historic relevance (which is why in the western world people choose to be christian). Of course you can pick and choose, but why does that matter?

If you believe Christianity is a message sent from God with Jesus , then you have to literally follow his word and rules . And in the Quran God said several times what means , they write the book with their hands and say this is from God , shame on what they do . So God made promise and said , we sent down the message and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) this time .

[lennartack]

yeah - so is the Lord of the RIngs, Das Kapital and Mein Kampf - what's your point here?

Nothing prevents you from having the Lord of the Rings as a religion. What's your point here?

Of course you can pick and choose, but why does that matter?

Dah, oh so very dah!

Can you explain your reasoning here?

If you believe Christianity is a message sent from God with Jesus , then you have to literally follow his word and rules .

Why? Does He say so in His books? Maybe God's intent was to interpret His books allegorical.

[Kayla]

If you believe Christianity is a message sent from God with Jesus , then you have to literally follow his word and rules .

where does the bible say that

its not like there is a literal meaning and then an interpreted meaning on top of that

all reading is interpretation you cannot read something without interpreting it

for instance consider hte biblical image of god as a father

to someone with an abusive father that will literally mean something different than it would to someone with a loving father


have you actually read ANY philosophy?

i would suggest starting with Plato's 'euthyphro'

[Khalid]

If you believe Christianity is a message sent from God with Jesus , then you have to literally follow his word and rules .

where does the bible say that

its not like there is a literal meaning and then an interpreted meaning on top of that

all reading is interpretation you cannot read something without interpreting it

for instance consider hte biblical image of god as a father

to someone with an abusive father that will literally mean something different than it would to someone with a loving father


have you actually read ANY philosophy?

i would suggest starting with Plato's 'euthyphro'

I'm not talking about interpretations , I'm talking about the whole book and rules included . Actually The bible was distorted and rewritten in versions (old testament , the new era and others) and today you find catholic church with it's own form of christianity and rules that differs from Orthodox and protestant differs from them both . As lennartack said : The Bible is usually not considered the word of God, . That bible is of value for the lessons that can be taken from it . Of course you can pick and choose,
I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

[attofishpi]

I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

Khalid...what do you believe is ''God's" message?

[lennartack]

I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

The reason you are a muslim is because you grew up in a islamic environment. No matter how you put it, either you made the choice, your parents made the choice or you let change make the choice.

Try to project yourself into a relativist's mind. From all places in the world people are saying: our religion is the only pure religion and all these others are incorrect, and we have proof! Can you imagine how stupid they all sound? Atheists are no better since they say the same thing.

[Khalid]

I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

Khalid...what do you believe is ''God's" message?

I believe Islam is the last message and the last extension of all religion's common message , which is to believe there is no God but Allah (The only God in English) , believe in his angels , prophets , messengers , destiny and in the judgement day .

[Khalid]

I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

The reason you are a muslim is because you grew up in a islamic environment. No matter how you put it, either you made the choice, your parents made the choice or you let change make the choice.

Try to project yourself into a relativist's mind. From all places in the world people are saying: our religion is the only pure religion and all these others are incorrect, and we have proof! Can you imagine how stupid they all sound? Atheists are no better since they say the same thing.

I was just saying I think that I shouldn't pick or choose religious rules or contents according to the way I like . If I follow and believe in a message then I have to take it all or leave it all . And yes I know Christians say Christianity is the truth , muslims , Buddhist and others say the same about their faith . Well , in case I'm in a discussion , I will expose my reasons in a logical way and exchange the discussion with the other side who accepted to start the discussion . And in the end I have my mind and you have yours . As long as everyone says his opinion in a peaceful and respectful way then I don't find any problem .

[MJA]

Not as much of an anomaly as you would like to think. If the Book is the WORD of God then you being religious ought to follow it to the letter. If you don't believe it is the word of god then why the hell are you a Christian anyway? If you can pick and choose , what value is ANY of that Book?

The Bible is usually not considered the word of God, and I think most Christians don't even believe it is the literal word of the apostles since most new testament books appeared slightly to late for that to be possible. That bible is of value for the lessons that can be taken from it and its cultural-historic relevance (which is why in the western world people choose to be christian). Of course you can pick and choose, but why does that matter?

Value? Such as an eye for an eye, the killing of first born children, a sacrificial torturous death on a cross?
The good book!

=

[reasonvemotion]

Khalid...what do you believe is ''God's" message?

I believe Islam is the last message and the last extension of all religion's common message , which is to believe there is no God but Allah (The only God in English) , believe in his angels , prophets , messengers , destiny and in the judgement day .

Khalid, interesting above..... what you quote is similar to The Bible's message. What interests me are the words "the last message and the last extension". Why does it have to be Islam, exclusively, and does the Koran teach you are the chosen people? and if so, what happens to the rest of us who are not Islamic. Should I become a Muslim to be "saved". Abraham was given a special promise that the descendants of Ishmael would become a great nation. It's in the Bible, the Torah, Genesis 17:20, RSV.

In life, people have to accept tradegy and wonder "why" God, let this happen.
Matthew 18:3 ... and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. Impossible. Your fervor is obvious, but untested.

[Kayla]

I disagree here , I shouldn't pick or choose what I like and refuse what I dislike of rules , facts or whatever . That's in case I believe Christianity is God's message .

you can't help but to pick and choose

no rule can be equally relevant in every possible situation - nor can it mean the same thing in every possible case

consider fornication

you seem to think that the prohibition is very straightforward

but it is not

is heavy petting fornication? of course you cant answer that unless you have some inkling for the reason for the rule

is living together as a couple without a formal marriage fornication? in common law countries a couple living together is treated similar to a married couple under the law

in some cultures marriage consists of the couple living together and announcing that they are married - is that sufficient

if you start asking those questions you find that a rule is not and cannot be an unequivocal commandment for every circumstance and all time

you have to decide - yourself - when and if it applies in any particular case

note that the bible and the quran do not offer any particular guidance to these questions that cannot be avoided


dude if god did not want us to use our brains he would not have given us any

[Kayla]

But if there is ONE god, unchanging, immortal, omniscient, etc. then there has to be ONE set of perfectly good moral rules devised and set down in THE book written in his words.

that is a nonsequitor

I know a Canadian that does. You are showing prejudice without evidence.

canadians are less likely to believe in literal understanding of the bible

or are you saying that canadians are as likely to do as as are texans