The Antichrist

[melonkali]

I haven't read all 43 pages of this thread, but I've picked up on a couple of ideas I'd like to address. Most of the following comes from my memory of Walter Kaufmann's highly regarded analyses and English translations of N, but I checked other sources concerning N's character and biography.

The Man:
Concerning N's voluntary war service, he was a medic.

Concerning N's insanity, a detailed evaluation of available material (including medical reports) by historical medical experts, leaves no doubt that N had some type of progressive, devastating physical neurological disorder which eventually resulted in insanity. At one time a popular theory was neurological syphilis, but N was not known for promiscuity. Some recent reports favor a genetic neurological disorder (there is a very long name for it which I can't remember, but you can find it on the internet), also found in his father (who exhibited similar symptoms and died at age 36) and his baby brother (who had seizures and died at age 2).

Concerning N's early years, he was a brilliant student, and later professor, who retired on a University pension due to his progressing illness. He chose to spend his remaining years, which he knew would be short, writing. Although his doctors limited him to no more than an hour a day of reading or writing (he was nearly blind by this time), N often worked zealously 12 to 16 hours a day.

Concerning his works, including The Antichrist:
The "Antichrist" might better be translated "Anti-Christian", since in two of its later sections the identical German word is used, and can only be sensibly translated Anti-Christian. The Anti-Christian, regarded as one of N's least scholarly and most poorly written works (badly needed an editor) by nearly all N scholars, is one of N's angry attacks on an increasingly vehement and dangerous German Christian Anti-Semitism. N was attempting to turn their same ruthless diatribes against Jews back onto them (Christians).

Nietszche intentionally used provocative phrases and words, for example, "God is Dead", as rhetorical tools. "The Antichrist or Antichristian" might well fall into that category.

Both before and after writing The Anti-Christ(ian), N wrote vehemently against Anti-Semitism. While he clearly did not care for the Christianity of his day or the New Testament, he wrote highly of the Old Testament and the Jews. When writing of an eventual "European Race" (vs nationalities), N insisted that the J's must be included for reasons including their intelligence, strength and industriousness. His outrage toward Anti-Semitism was the cause of his ending his friendship with Wagner. Interestingly, N's sister, who edited some of his later and nearly-lost works, was Anti-Semitic and was married to a prominent Anti-Semite.

N was anti-war in principle, as some of his early writings reveal. One of his works, Homer's Contest, praises the Greeks for instituting contexts, physical and other, which greatly reduced the history of wars in ancient Greece. However, N reluctantly acceptance of its reality of his age, and probably would be so until or unless a new kind of man, an "overman", gained political rule. Writing of the fall of Athens (N idolized the Greeks), N despaired that human culture was unable to flouish unless it was "armed to the teeth".

Nietzsche uses the word "power" most often in passages and works specifically relating to overcoming self to become an "overman", and men overcoming their baser desires to become overmen. This is not to claim that N didn't employ the same word for another meaning, which I honestly don't know, and wouldn't be surprised to find in a poorly written, unedited later work, in light of his progressing neurological disorder. But unless a text specifically assigns another meaning to the term "power", that is how it is usually understood in N's earlier works.

I do recall one early work in which he did not question a society's responsibility to care for its weaker members -- to do otherwise was barbaric. I remember that passage because it surprised me, based on N's reputation. When I find my Kaufmann book, I'll look it up. I do recall that somewhere N lamented the cost to the health of a society, and encouraged ways to motivate members of a society to will themselves to more productive and satisfying lives.

I don't find sympathy with all N's works, but if they were cited by to justify the atrocities of National Socialism, it was clearly a misinterpretation and taken out of context -- especially Anti Semitism. I'll examine the specific passages you mention in this thread as soon as I can dig out my old Kaufmann "Nietzsche" book. I barely read The Antichrist, years ago, and have only a few old class notes concerning it. In the interim, if you're seriously interested in Nietzsche, I'd suggest getting hold of Walter Kaufmann's translations and analyses. He devoted much of his career to N, as Dr. Kaufmann was convinced that N had been misinterpreted and badly translated in the English speaking world (apparently not so in France, where he was better understood and somewhat admired).

He may not be everyone's favorite philosopher -- he's not mine -- but he was, by most accounts of the people who knew him, a brilliant man, a gracious man, and a decent man. (His morality seemed to be based on trying to emulate, as best he could, the nobility and presence required of his overman.) Not a candidate for the antichrist, IMO.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I haven't read all 43 pages of this thread, but I've picked up on a couple of ideas I'd like to address. Most of the following comes from my memory of Walter Kaufmann's highly regarded analyses and English translations of N, but I checked other sources concerning N's character and biography.

The Man:
Concerning N's voluntary war service, he was a medic.

Concerning N's insanity, a detailed evaluation of available material (including medical reports) by historical medical experts, leaves no doubt that N had some type of progressive, devastating physical neurological disorder which eventually resulted in insanity. At one time a popular theory was neurological syphilis, but N was not known for promiscuity. Some recent reports favor a genetic neurological disorder (there is a very long name for it which I can't remember, but you can find it on the internet), also found in his father (who exhibited similar symptoms and died at age 36) and his baby brother (who had seizures and died at age 2).

Concerning N's early years, he was a brilliant student, and later professor, who retired on a University pension due to his progressing illness. He chose to spend his remaining years, which he knew would be short, writing. Although his doctors limited him to no more than an hour a day of reading or writing (he was nearly blind by this time), N often worked zealously 12 to 16 hours a day.

Concerning his works, including The Antichrist:
The "Antichrist" might better be translated "Anti-Christian", since in two of its later sections the identical German word is used, and can only be sensibly translated Anti-Christian. The Anti-Christian, regarded as one of N's least scholarly and most poorly written works (badly needed an editor) by nearly all N scholars, is one of N's angry attacks on an increasingly vehement and dangerous German Christian Anti-Semitism. N was attempting to turn their same ruthless diatribes against Jews back onto them (Christians).

Nietszche intentionally used provocative phrases and words, for example, "God is Dead", as rhetorical tools. "The Antichrist or Antichristian" might well fall into that category.

Both before and after writing The Anti-Christ(ian), N wrote vehemently against Anti-Semitism. While he clearly did not care for the Christianity of his day or the New Testament, he wrote highly of the Old Testament and the Jews. When writing of an eventual "European Race" (vs nationalities), N insisted that the J's must be included for reasons including their intelligence, strength and industriousness. His outrage toward Anti-Semitism was the cause of his ending his friendship with Wagner. Interestingly, N's sister, who edited some of his later and nearly-lost works, was Anti-Semitic and was married to a prominent Anti-Semite.

N was anti-war in principle, as some of his early writings reveal. One of his works, Homer's Contest, praises the Greeks for instituting contexts, physical and other, which greatly reduced the history of wars in ancient Greece. However, N reluctantly acceptance of its reality of his age, and probably would be so until or unless a new kind of man, an "overman", gained political rule. Writing of the fall of Athens (N idolized the Greeks), N despaired that human culture was unable to flouish unless it was "armed to the teeth".

Nietzsche uses the word "power" most often in passages and works specifically relating to overcoming self to become an "overman", and men overcoming their baser desires to become overmen. This is not to claim that N didn't employ the same word for another meaning, which I honestly don't know, and wouldn't be surprised to find in a poorly written, unedited later work, in light of his progressing neurological disorder. But unless a text specifically assigns another meaning to the term "power", that is how it is usually understood in N's earlier works.

I do recall one early work in which he did not question a society's responsibility to care for its weaker members -- to do otherwise was barbaric. I remember that passage because it surprised me, based on N's reputation. When I find my Kaufmann book, I'll look it up. I do recall that somewhere N lamented the cost to the health of a society, and encouraged ways to motivate members of a society to will themselves to more productive and satisfying lives.

I don't find sympathy with all N's works, but if they were cited by to justify the atrocities of National Socialism, it was clearly a misinterpretation and taken out of context -- especially Anti Semitism. I'll examine the specific passages you mention in this thread as soon as I can dig out my old Kaufmann "Nietzsche" book. I barely read The Antichrist, years ago, and have only a few old class notes concerning it. In the interim, if you're seriously interested in Nietzsche, I'd suggest getting hold of Walter Kaufmann's translations and analyses. He devoted much of his career to N, as Dr. Kaufmann was convinced that N had been misinterpreted and badly translated in the English speaking world (apparently not so in France, where he was better understood and somewhat admired).

He may not be everyone's favorite philosopher -- he's not mine -- but he was, by most accounts of the people who knew him, a brilliant man, a gracious man, and a decent man. (His morality seemed to be based on trying to emulate, as best he could, the nobility and presence required of his overman.) Not a candidate for the antichrist, IMO.

You seem like a reasonable sort, but I for one am more interested in your analysis of N's words, not those of another's, as I see that as merely parroting.

[artisticsolution]

I haven't read all 43 pages of this thread, but I've picked up on a couple of ideas I'd like to address. Most of the following comes from my memory of Walter Kaufmann's highly regarded analyses and English translations of N, but I checked other sources concerning N's character and biography.

The Man:
Concerning N's voluntary war service, he was a medic.

Concerning N's insanity, a detailed evaluation of available material (including medical reports) by historical medical experts, leaves no doubt that N had some type of progressive, devastating physical neurological disorder which eventually resulted in insanity. At one time a popular theory was neurological syphilis, but N was not known for promiscuity. Some recent reports favor a genetic neurological disorder (there is a very long name for it which I can't remember, but you can find it on the internet), also found in his father (who exhibited similar symptoms and died at age 36) and his baby brother (who had seizures and died at age 2).

Concerning N's early years, he was a brilliant student, and later professor, who retired on a University pension due to his progressing illness. He chose to spend his remaining years, which he knew would be short, writing. Although his doctors limited him to no more than an hour a day of reading or writing (he was nearly blind by this time), N often worked zealously 12 to 16 hours a day.

Concerning his works, including The Antichrist:
The "Antichrist" might better be translated "Anti-Christian", since in two of its later sections the identical German word is used, and can only be sensibly translated Anti-Christian. The Anti-Christian, regarded as one of N's least scholarly and most poorly written works (badly needed an editor) by nearly all N scholars, is one of N's angry attacks on an increasingly vehement and dangerous German Christian Anti-Semitism. N was attempting to turn their same ruthless diatribes against Jews back onto them (Christians).

Nietszche intentionally used provocative phrases and words, for example, "God is Dead", as rhetorical tools. "The Antichrist or Antichristian" might well fall into that category.

Both before and after writing The Anti-Christ(ian), N wrote vehemently against Anti-Semitism. While he clearly did not care for the Christianity of his day or the New Testament, he wrote highly of the Old Testament and the Jews. When writing of an eventual "European Race" (vs nationalities), N insisted that the J's must be included for reasons including their intelligence, strength and industriousness. His outrage toward Anti-Semitism was the cause of his ending his friendship with Wagner. Interestingly, N's sister, who edited some of his later and nearly-lost works, was Anti-Semitic and was married to a prominent Anti-Semite.

N was anti-war in principle, as some of his early writings reveal. One of his works, Homer's Contest, praises the Greeks for instituting contexts, physical and other, which greatly reduced the history of wars in ancient Greece. However, N reluctantly acceptance of its reality of his age, and probably would be so until or unless a new kind of man, an "overman", gained political rule. Writing of the fall of Athens (N idolized the Greeks), N despaired that human culture was unable to flouish unless it was "armed to the teeth".

Nietzsche uses the word "power" most often in passages and works specifically relating to overcoming self to become an "overman", and men overcoming their baser desires to become overmen. This is not to claim that N didn't employ the same word for another meaning, which I honestly don't know, and wouldn't be surprised to find in a poorly written, unedited later work, in light of his progressing neurological disorder. But unless a text specifically assigns another meaning to the term "power", that is how it is usually understood in N's earlier works.

I do recall one early work in which he did not question a society's responsibility to care for its weaker members -- to do otherwise was barbaric. I remember that passage because it surprised me, based on N's reputation. When I find my Kaufmann book, I'll look it up. I do recall that somewhere N lamented the cost to the health of a society, and encouraged ways to motivate members of a society to will themselves to more productive and satisfying lives.

I don't find sympathy with all N's works, but if they were cited by to justify the atrocities of National Socialism, it was clearly a misinterpretation and taken out of context -- especially Anti Semitism. I'll examine the specific passages you mention in this thread as soon as I can dig out my old Kaufmann "Nietzsche" book. I barely read The Antichrist, years ago, and have only a few old class notes concerning it. In the interim, if you're seriously interested in Nietzsche, I'd suggest getting hold of Walter Kaufmann's translations and analyses. He devoted much of his career to N, as Dr. Kaufmann was convinced that N had been misinterpreted and badly translated in the English speaking world (apparently not so in France, where he was better understood and somewhat admired).

He may not be everyone's favorite philosopher -- he's not mine -- but he was, by most accounts of the people who knew him, a brilliant man, a gracious man, and a decent man. (His morality seemed to be based on trying to emulate, as best he could, the nobility and presence required of his overman.) Not a candidate for the antichrist, IMO.

Hi Melonkali,

Welcome back to the forum! Sorry I missed this post. I have been playing on my nook with other books...and I am torn between all sorts of things to read and post. I just wanted to say hi and let you know I enjoyed your post very much. I hope you will continue to share with us your understanding of N.