Hajj

[John]

It says that space is vast. Where does it say that it expands?

It's says we created it's vastness . Anyway this is another translation of the verse : (With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.)

Let's not argue translations but it's hardly Stephen Hawking material in it's pronouncement.

I remain unconvinced but I accept you may think otherwise.

This is a bizarre interpretation. It seems more like an advert for astrology than a prophesy of spaceships.

What if Gas energy didn't exist underneath the surface , what if we simply didn't manage to invent and devise things like engines , mechanical engineering , plans and other shapes of technology we have today . Such a verse wouldn't make any meaning ever . But to say clearly that we gonna pass by the heavens and seeing signs in it . Nasa is the fastest thing came to my mind .

To "pass by" and "turn their faces way from them" suggests not paying heed to something more than it does spaceships, particularly as "heavenly signs" have been regarded as significant portents since primitive times.

If you want to believe that predicts spaceships then so be it.

What special claim are you making? That people didn't know that the ejaculate of men caused women to become pregnant and pregnancy lead to the birth of a human child?

No but I said the word "a clot of congealed blood" looks extraordinary . And how did he know what happens inside and stating them in exact order . Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature.So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
Why isn't there a mistake according to today's medicine ?

Was this a contentious issue at the time? It may be true but was the knowledge anything special?

[Arising_uk]

...
And Chimpanzee evolution not risible ? Btw I don't refuse archaeology and paleontology but I refuse atheist theories . The ancient Egyptians who made an incredible civilization thousands of years ago , were they monkeys ? They reached the most glorious achievements and civilization and they believed in the afterlife . I don't think they were a people who would chose to live in a delusion . ...

Its is risible but not in the way you think. As its a mistake(generally by the ignorant or religious) to think that the Evolutionists think we are evolved from chimpanzees, we are not, we are Primates along with our cousin the Chimpanzee. In fact from a DNA evolutionary point of view the Chimpanzees are more evolved along the 'tree of life' than us as they and the Pygmy Chimpanzees split later from a common ancestor of our common ancestor. What we do think is that there was a kind of proto-primate that we the current primates evolved from.

The Egyptian belief in their afterlife was such a delusion, one that your grave robbers took great advantage of. They also believed that their 'Gods' had the heads of animals, given what you've said I presume you think this the truth and not a delusion?

Again , I don't fuckin care about them and I have no Imam . My Imam is the Koran , prophet and my conscience . Religion is the meaning of life and I don't give a shit about the stereotyped story of someone decided to deliberately end his life in the name of anything or someone who thinks himself the official representative of God like Ayatollah of Iran .

Good for you, I've have always liked the fact that Islam promotes the idea of a personal relationship with one's 'God' as it appears an attempt to curb the growth of a 'Church' and its priests, shame that in many Islamic countries the belief in 'Gods' law as above Mans allows the establishment of a religious council or such-like that do wield priest-like powers.

[Khalid]

Let's not argue translations but it's hardly Stephen Hawking material in it's pronouncement.

I remain unconvinced but I accept you may think otherwise.

To "pass by" and "turn their faces way from them" suggests not paying heed to something more than it does spaceships, particularly as "heavenly signs" have been regarded as significant portents since primitive times.

If you want to believe that predicts spaceships then so be it.

Let's call this the difference in perspectives between a believer and a disbeliever . I know that I may meet thousands of Christians thinking that their religion is the truth and the bible is completely right . It's faith , it's something you can not easily take from peoples' lives . Like people naturally have a tendency to worship . But I grew up in a nonreligious house , my parents believe in Islam but they didn't use to be real or serious muslims since I was a kid . I also had some experiences with drugs when I was 19 and I was just one inch from death several times . I praise God almost everyday now that he didn't take my soul when I was on drug . Then I started to read the Koran and I found it the greatest and most wise book ever . Really that book has many unusual signs and evidence but perhaps you simply don't like the truth or don't want to change your life . Many reasons can be behind believing in something . Was Moses a prophet ? Yes he was a prophet sent with miracles to Pharaoh of Egypt (Ramses II) who claimed to be God and who was the most powerful pharaoh of Egypt and who used to torture and kill all new born male babies of Israelis who lived in Egypt in that time and his soldiers used to rape Israeli women . Jesus was a prophet and messenger of God sent by miracles and proofs confirming Moses's message . Muhammad was a prophet came with miracles confirming Jesus and Mosses message . That there is a God , creator and there is an afterlife . Everybody knows there is a creator and afterlife but it's just the arrogance . Like Jews who told Moses we want to see God manifestly . You know what you declare when saying there is no God , you say there is purpose of life . Life is a coincidence , that is there is no objective . No the objective is clear , who make the suitable arrangement for the judgement day will be the winner , a poor employee who never had enough money to make a nice vacation for his family yet he never accepted to touch money which doesn't belong to him , while another one robbed a million of dollars after he made sure that there wouldn't be lawful consequences . That gives life a meaning and the judgement day an evidence . A 20 years old young man who spend his life in a revolution against oppression and injustice give life a meaning . I don't know , it's just all about the heart and purity . These are the strong basis of religions . God says in the Quran , this life is a decoration (A BMW car can make you kill someone , cheat or take money doesn't belong to you) . In other verses wordly life is nothing but delusion . Those two meanings are awesome for me . This is the purity and human morals .

[John]

shame that in many Islamic countries the belief in 'Gods' law as above Mans allows the establishment of a religious council or such-like that do wield priest-like powers.

It's ironic that in the Islamic Republic of Iran, where the clerical classes do wield real power, Khomeini declared that matters of state took precedence over matters of religion. So even though Iran is commonly considered a fundamentalist state in the west it's not really true as there's a lot more pragmatism than people think and, in my opinion, religion is just a tool to maintain the control of the clerical elite over the populace.

[Khalid]

shame that in many Islamic countries the belief in 'Gods' law as above Mans allows the establishment of a religious council or such-like that do wield priest-like powers.

It's ironic that in the Islamic Republic of Iran, where the clerical classes do wield real power, Khomeini declared that matters of state took precedence over matters of religion. So even though Iran is commonly considered a fundamentalist state in the west it's not really true as there's a lot more pragmatism than people think and, in my opinion, religion is just a tool to maintain the control of the clerical elite over the populace.

Maybe Iranian religious regime used religion to maintain the control of the country . But they didn't know that politics is a dirty work . A politician must be a clever liar . I'm happy that the Egyptian parliament was dissolved two days ago and elections will be replayed .

[chaz wyman]

shame that in many Islamic countries the belief in 'Gods' law as above Mans allows the establishment of a religious council or such-like that do wield priest-like powers.

It's ironic that in the Islamic Republic of Iran, where the clerical classes do wield real power, Khomeini declared that matters of state took precedence over matters of religion. So even though Iran is commonly considered a fundamentalist state in the west it's not really true as there's a lot more pragmatism than people think and, in my opinion, religion is just a tool to maintain the control of the clerical elite over the populace.

Maybe Iranian religious regime used religion to maintain the control of the country . But they didn't know that politics is a dirty work . A politician must be a clever liar . I'm happy that the Egyptian parliament was dissolved two days ago and elections will be replayed .

Didn't last too long eh?
You must be naive to think that this will lead to justice.
Islam will destroy the democracy within 2 years.

[Arising_uk]

.. Islam only opposes the relation between man and monkey part . ...

What does Islam think this 'relation' is?

[Khalid]

.. Islam only opposes the relation between man and monkey part . ...

What does Islam think this 'relation' is?

Islam just like all other Abrahamic religions simply stating Adam and Eve our first ancestors and denying the supposition that mankind evolved from monkeys or any animals .

[Khalid]

Didn't last too long eh?
You must be naive to think that this will lead to justice.
Islam will destroy the democracy within 2 years.

Yes , the high constitutional court judge the basis of elections were illegal . So , everything is going back to zero . I think the muslims brotherhood won't win majority of parliament in the next time .

[Arising_uk]

Islam just like all other Abrahamic religions simply stating Adam and Eve our first ancestors and denying the supposition that mankind evolved from monkeys or any animals .

I keep telling you, we don't think we evolved from monkeys, they are our cousins, we are all Primates. But if Islam believes that our ancestors, i.e. 'Adam' and 'Eve' did not evolve from a previous life-form but due to a 'God' making one from mud and the other from a rib then they pretty much don't believe in Evolution at all. You err in thinking we are not an animal alongside all the other animals.

[Khalid]

Islam just like all other Abrahamic religions simply stating Adam and Eve our first ancestors and denying the supposition that mankind evolved from monkeys or any animals .

I keep telling you, we don't think we evolved from monkeys, they are our cousins, we are all Primates. But if Islam believes that our ancestors, i.e. 'Adam' and 'Eve' did not evolve from a previous life-form but due to a 'God' making one from mud and the other from a rib then they pretty much don't believe in Evolution at all. You err in thinking we are not an animal alongside all the other animals.

There is a verse in the Quran tells the story of people whom were punished by God for disobeying him , and the punishment was turning them into monkeys .

[Arising_uk]

Don't tell me, you believe that as well!

Make a great sci-fi story tho' as there's always been the sci-fi theme that 'God' is an astronaut and we're the result of genetic manipulation by 'it' and you can, with a stretch of the imagination make all the theist creation myths fit this model. In fact theres a bunch of 'godbotherers' who really do believe this and supposedly 'he's' coming back soon in a big moon-sized spaceship and then the Day of Judgement will be upon us. Amazing how beliefs have no contact to reality.

[John]

Islam just like all other Abrahamic religions simply stating Adam and Eve our first ancestors and denying the supposition that mankind evolved from monkeys or any animals .

I keep telling you, we don't think we evolved from monkeys, they are our cousins, we are all Primates. But if Islam believes that our ancestors, i.e. 'Adam' and 'Eve' did not evolve from a previous life-form but due to a 'God' making one from mud and the other from a rib then they pretty much don't believe in Evolution at all. You err in thinking we are not an animal alongside all the other animals.

There is a verse in the Quran tells the story of people whom were punished by God for disobeying him , and the punishment was turning them into monkeys .

Nice fairytale but you don't actually believe it do you?

[John]

Don't tell me, you believe that as well!

Make a great sci-fi story tho' as there's always been the sci-fi theme that 'God' is an astronaut and we're the result of genetic manipulation by 'it' and you can, with a stretch of the imagination make all the theist creation myths fit this model. In fact theres a bunch of 'godbotherers' who really do believe this and supposedly 'he's' coming back soon in a big moon-sized spaceship and then the Day of Judgement will be upon us. Amazing how beliefs have no contact to reality.

You seen Prometheus yet?

[Khalid]

Don't tell me, you believe that as well!

Make a great sci-fi story tho' as there's always been the sci-fi theme that 'God' is an astronaut and we're the result of genetic manipulation by 'it' and you can, with a stretch of the imagination make all the theist creation myths fit this model. In fact theres a bunch of 'godbotherers' who really do believe this and supposedly 'he's' coming back soon in a big moon-sized spaceship and then the Day of Judgement will be upon us. Amazing how beliefs have no contact to reality.

If I believe Moses split the red sea to pass with his people to the next shore before the pharaoh and his soldiers catch and exterminate them . If I believe Jesus brought dead people to life again and healed deafness , then it's more easy and simple to believe such story . You can't get with your mind out of logical and reasonable rules , what if I told you that God is the creator of materialistic rules ( from gravity and Oxygen percentage in air to the number of cells in your brain ) . If you look deeply at the universe you can't find one single mistake , the sun never gets one inch out of it's orbit and never absents . Perfect formation of your body , vision ability , the hearing and smelling . The nature was made with perfect balance between all species , we are the only element in the world who has the ability to dominate and use all other elements for food , medication , clothing and all other uses . How can I disbelieve in God !!