Scientific Facts In The Quran

[Arising_uk]

... He came when the world was living in it's darkest ages ever slavery , injustice and oppression . ...

You need to check your 'history'. Look-up, Arabs and the Slave Trade. It appears that Islam had no problem with such things, in fact made a tidy-living from them.

[Khalid]

... He came when the world was living in it's darkest ages ever slavery , injustice and oppression . ...

You need to check your 'history'. Look-up, Arabs and the Slave Trade. It appears that Islam had no problem with such things, in fact made a tidy-living from them.

Islam prohibits slavery . When Muhammad came he prohibited slavery

[Arising_uk]

Islam prohibits slavery . When Muhammad came he prohibited slavery

The Africans and Eastern Europeans would disagree with you. Goggle Islam, Arabs and Slavery and understand the extent of your delusions. Unless of course you are just saying that Islam forbids the enslaving of other Muslims, I'd accept that it is that hypocritical.

[chaz wyman]

Moulay Ishmail, descendant of the Prophet had one million slaves, many taken from the coast of England, and seized from ships by acts of piracy around the barbary coast.

He treated them with barbaric cruelty and many he tortured until they converted to Islam.


Read about it in WHite Gold, by Giles Minton.

[Kayla]

... He came when the world was living in it's darkest ages ever slavery , injustice and oppression . ...

You need to check your 'history'. Look-up, Arabs and the Slave Trade. It appears that Islam had no problem with such things, in fact made a tidy-living from them.

Islam prohibits slavery . When Muhammad came he prohibited slavery

(10) Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #24)

the obvious reading here is that it is forbidden to have sex with women are already married - except for your female slaves with whom you can have sex without regard for the marriage status

would you care to provide a different interpretation

perhaps you can even provide references to islam prohibiting slavery

i know that there some passages in both quran and hadith encouraging freeing slaves but that is not the same thing as prohibiting slavery

[Khalid]

10) Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #24)

the obvious reading here is that it is forbidden to have sex with women are already married - except for your female slaves with whom you can have sex without regard for the marriage status

would you care to provide a different interpretation

perhaps you can even provide references to islam prohibiting slavery

i know that there some passages in both quran and hadith encouraging freeing slaves but that is not the same thing as prohibiting slavery

I just read the islamic interpretation about that . The verse talks about captives muslims used to get from battles against dis-believers (Btw I'd like to say that battles or Jihad wasn't Muhammad's choice , It's the dis-believers choice who wanted to exterminate Muhammad and his religion so he had to make Jihad to spread his message) . So muslims used to have female captives from battles . So when God says 'except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.' It means if I have a pretty captive , it's legal for me to ask her for marriage after specific time if she agrees to and convert to Islam (in case she refused to become a muslim and to get married , she is not forced) . And in case she agrees she is no longer a captive nor slave . She is my wife now , a free person just like me .

[Kayla]

female captives from battles!?

how many females participates in battles

what is the basis for this interpretation since it seems rather at odds with what the quran actually says

[Khalid]

female captives from battles!?

how many females participates in battles

what is the basis for this interpretation since it seems rather at odds with what the quran actually says

All the interpretations of the verse say the same . What you right hand posses refers to captives . And this verse was revealed in the time of 'Otas and Haneen' battles when several females were captivated . How they were involved in the battles , I don't know , maybe they were with their men .
Kayla , you are doing your best digging and bringing any detail that might highlight the idea (Islam is a delusion , Muhammad was a smart warrior and religion generally is a fairytale) . I know you aren't an atheist , you have some faith in God . But you all are trying to prove this message . And it seems I'm not gonna be convinced of your path and nor you gonna be convinced of mine . Argument seems useless , no body can claim to have the ultimate truth . Everybody has his reasons and path that he believes is right .

[Khalid]

And you put aside anything good about Islam or religion in general .. That religion encourages help the poor , do the good , have morals , not to cheat , not to lie , not to kill , not to steal things don't belong to you , not to hurt an animal , not to hurt another human , to be smiling (it's something praised in Islam btw) , to help your neighbors , to study and work harder , to be honest .

HAVE YOU GUYS HEARD OF THESE THINGS ?

Anyway we hate who hates us . We have no problem with who doesn't have problem with us . I'm and all friends and people I know in my life aren't people who tend to violence as you claim . Islam substantially discourages and forbids violence and I have Koranic evidences if you want .

[Kayla]

All the interpretations of the verse say the same .

how is that interpretation arrived at is the important part

how many interpretations agree does not matter

Kayla , you are doing your best digging and bringing any detail that might highlight the idea (Islam is a delusion , Muhammad was a smart warrior and religion generally is a fairytale) .

not at all

if someone says that the bible forbids slavery i will point out that they are wrong

this does not mean that the bible is a fairytale only that it is not a literal dictation from god that provides complete guidance to our conduct

but it would be dishonest of me to try to try to handwave past the fact that that bible does in fact allow slavery

likewise it is dishonest of view to try to handwave past some of the more difficult part of the quran

perhaps you should consider the idea that the quran might have been very progressive for its time - i mean the idea of no female infanticide was very progressive back then - but rather than seeing it as a list of rules good for all time - you shoudl consider the possibility that it just shows you an example of how one might be progressive in relation to one's own time

[Arising_uk]

... So when God says 'except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.' ...

As opposed to those slaves who enter into slavery willingly?

[Arising_uk]

... She is my wife now , a free person just like me .

But not quite 'free' enough to choose her husband or her freedom eh!

[Arising_uk]

And you put aside anything good about Islam or religion in general .. That religion encourages help the poor , do the good , have morals , not to cheat , not to lie , not to kill , not to steal things don't belong to you , not to hurt an animal , not to hurt another human , to be smiling (it's something praised in Islam btw) , to help your neighbors , to study and work harder , to be honest .

As does Christianity. And much like many Christians many Muslims appear to not follow their creed.

HAVE YOU GUYS HEARD OF THESE THINGS ?

We have, its that the reality appears to not fit the words.

Do not mistake us Khalid, I'm pretty sure that many here understand the debt owed to Islam for preserving knowledge and the contributions to it that Islam has made. Its that you show a great blindness to its faults and to how its current trend appears to be going.

Anyway we hate who hates us . We have no problem with who doesn't have problem with us . I'm and all friends and people I know in my life aren't people who tend to violence as you claim . Islam substantially discourages and forbids violence and I have Koranic evidences if you want .

And yet we have many Islamic countries and Muslims committing atrocities against their own Muslims and others citizens. Although this is the difference between the 'prophets' as Christ says love not hate those who hate you, I suppose thats why he was considered so radical.

Having a book say not to do something says little when those who read it ignore it or re-interpret its meaning for their own purposes.

[Arising_uk]

... Argument seems useless , no body can claim to have the ultimate truth . Everybody has his reasons and path that he believes is right .

So you believe you could be wrong about your beliefs? That the Koran is not the ultimate truth about things?

[Khalid]

... So when God says 'except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.' ...

As opposed to those slaves who enter into slavery willingly?

They are caught captives so they have two options , first to accept marriage to a muslim who has the will to (In case she wants to become a muslim) or to refuse and stay a captive . This is what I understood of interpretations .

But not quite 'free' enough to choose her husband or her freedom eh!

She is not forced to accept marriage and convert to Islam as I think.

As does Christianity. And much like many Christians many Muslims appear to not follow their creed.

We have, its that the reality appears to not fit the words.
Do not mistake us Khalid, I'm pretty sure that many here understand the debt owed to Islam for preserving knowledge and the contributions to it that Islam has made. Its that you show a great blindness to its faults and to how its current trend appears to be going.

I have to admit that we live in an age religions have become weak , can't say the age of religions decadence cause there still many millions of religious muslims , christians and even Jews , but the science and materialism is highly influencing peoples lives today . We can make heart transplant (yet we can't find a cure to an unseen virus like AIDS) . Anyway we live in the age of human mental arrogance. . But the soon future is bringing many surprises as I believe we are heading to the end of the world . You know something , there is a prophecy of Muhammad saying that one of the small signs of the end of the world , the barefoot Arabs who used to live in taints , will compete to build high buildings . Look at Dubai , Kuwait and others now . Other small signs include natural disasters (that already took place) , corruption , moral decay , economical crisis and others . Anyone can feel that evil has overcome the good in today's world .

And yet we have many Islamic countries and Muslims committing atrocities against their own Muslims and others citizens. Although this is the difference between the 'prophets' as Christ says love not hate those who hate you, I suppose thats why he was considered so radical.

Having a book say not to do something says little when those who read it ignore it or re-interpret its meaning for their own purposes.

Let God judge them all . I know this bad side do exist in Islamic world but why don't you also look at the positive side . How many Arab people did you deal with in your life ? I invite you to come here in Egypt for 1 month , take a close look around and see how people here deal with each others and with foreigners . walk in Luxor city streets at 4 am or even here in Portsaid the city I live in . Go to Al Azhar , the biggest Islamic institute in the Arab world . Deal with us closely .

So you believe you could be wrong about your beliefs? That the Koran is not the ultimate truth about things?

No , Koran is the ultimate truth , but I did mean that I can't convince you that I have the ultimate truth . We are so far from each other , you believe there is no God and I believe an entire entity of a religion is totally perfect and true . And I'm in the defending position against so many small things you bring trying to demolish the whole entire entity . Also sometime people feel the truth but they don't like it so it's very complicated and we will never gonna meet .