lancek4 wrote:Oh yes, you are right. I got confused. It is Scientology I was refering to.lancek4 wrote:
Interesting. Christian Science proposes this very thing: that humans are 'perfect processing machines'. That it is the data that it (we) have been given that is responsible for an inability or otherwise lack for sound reasoning or judgement. And they offer a solution for it. It's quite logical in a way.
~This is all contrary to evidence. The implication is that what scientology provides is the "RIGHT, PERFECT" data and if you are good and reasonable you will inevitably follow scientology - convenient that is!!! Bad data is any thing that contradicts L Ron Hubbard.lancek4 wrote:Scientology says that our bodies brains are perfect processing machines, that it processes perfectly the data it is given, that if there is a problem with the individual it is because it was given 'faulty' data, data they call 'trauma'. The traumas exist within the individual silently or unconsciously. The point of Scientology is for the infividual to realize or discover these traumas. Thereby releasing the data from the system. The individual thus becomes 'clear' of bad data and can then act freely, as a true agent , empowered by its natural ability to process 'perfectly'. Thus the agent acts in harmony with the universe. This harmony is called ethics and the individual thus behaves morally and good for humanity and the universe.
Does this not sound logical ?
... which is bogus. Why did you mention that?lancek4 wrote:Well, Reasontion said that s/he has some thoughts that are no good for thinking and so I wondered how one would know of which thoughts were the wrong ones, and do I offered the Scientology avenue for discussion. L Ron has a machine that let's you know what thoughts are stemming from bad data.
Lance:it is my belief to distance oneself from any group of people calling themselves "whatever"
I don't recall using the words "good" (or "bad").Well, Reasontion said that s/he has some thoughts that are no good
the garbage that they spew.
It is my understanding that the approach that you are indicating is not really what the appraoch is about. Yours indicates some method of comeing to oneself. The intent of the practice actually moves upon an ulterior (sp?) or alternative motive: that such a practice, while indeed eliciting an ability, such as weightliftng yields stringer muscles, but perhaps in the reverse in the case of thinking, the 'larger vehicle' is coming to terms with the fact that a person merely exists, and this existence bars nothing from itself and so where the 'practice' ends, then real existance can proceed.reasonvemotion wrote:I am my own worst enemy.
Now what the hell does this mean? I understand the 'emo' thing and all and the 'cool' self deafeating attitudes. Is this what it means?
I might take it in a most philosophical manner and see that you are making a very profound statement, but then you go on along a (what I see) as a different vector...
Thinking too much, just like too much of anything, can be detrimental to oneself.
Perhaps you could look up the 'aphilosophy thread' and read some of Typists stuff about 'not thinking. i think the group of us went on and on around that silliness for pages and pages and pages.
To erase much of the acquired knowledge or rubbish in the mind, almost like restoring a computer to manufacturer's state,
This is what reminded me of Scientology. Im sure you can see the correlation.
so it becomes simple, clear and your heart is the same, perhaps then truth can come into fruition.
So here it is: Truth. Maybe we can get somewhere with this statement. What is this 'truth' you are speaking about here?
To me, so far in you paragraph, I would respond that you are who you are. You cannot separate 'youself' from your 'thoughts'; niether can you segregate what thoughts are 'desireable you' from 'undesirable'. In as much as it seems that you would like to do this, or that you see some thing of your thoughts that is 'rubbish'm I then suggest that in that you have this idea of yourself, as if there is some segregating yourself from youself, that this is exactly the problem that you are dwelling uopn. That is to say, in as much as you have this Being that is you thinking, and these thoughts somehow figure yourself as some object that you can consider 'what i like of' and 'what I dont like of', you are not such Being, but are caught in the illusion that there is some 'Truth' somehwere that you can come upon or know or understand or not understand, that will make you 'complete' or 'comfortable' with youself.
It has certainly eluded me up to this point as I find it almost impossible to clear and still my mind for a substantial amount of time. In Buddhism it is the most difficult of all tasks to achieve.
see the comment just prior to this posting. She/he made an analogy to a computer or something, and I thought of scientology.chaz wyman wrote:... which is bogus. Why did you mention that?lancek4 wrote:Well, Reasontion said that s/he has some thoughts that are no good for thinking and so I wondered how one would know of which thoughts were the wrong ones, and do I offered the Scientology avenue for discussion. L Ron has a machine that let's you know what thoughts are stemming from bad data.
No he doesn't, what the Scientologists have with their e-meter is a galvanic response measurer that they combine with closed-questions to suck you into their religion. Its a powerful experience and they use it to great effect upon the credulous, depressed and vulnerable to steal their money.lancek4 wrote:... L Ron has a machine that let's you know what thoughts are stemming from bad data.
Well.... because there is no such thing as an engram! Obviously really.lancek4 wrote:see the comment just prior to this posting. She/he made an analogy to a computer or something, and I thought of scientology.chaz wyman wrote:... which is bogus. Why did you mention that?lancek4 wrote:Well, Reasontion said that s/he has some thoughts that are no good for thinking and so I wondered how one would know of which thoughts were the wrong ones, and do I offered the Scientology avenue for discussion. L Ron has a machine that let's you know what thoughts are stemming from bad data.
but hey: they have machines that can do all sorts of things, why not one that can detect 'engrams' from an incorporated prior trauma?
I am my own worst enemy. Thinking too much, just like too much of anything, can be detrimental to oneself.
When my thoughts are extreme, I put too much emphasis on and tremendous energy into activities from which I gain nothing.
.
To erase much of the acquired knowledge or rubbish in the mind, almost like restoring a computer to manufacturer's state, so it becomes simple, clear and your heart is the same, perhaps then truth can come into fruition.
It is extremely hard to rest undistracted in the nature of mind or to be as free as possible from the clamor of preconceived ideas even for a moment.
It has certainly eluded me up to this point as I find it almost impossible to clear and still my mind for a substantial amount of time. In Buddhism it is the most difficult of all tasks to achieve.
still my mind
In one commonly practiced Tibetan Buddhist technique for developing attentional stability and vividness the attention is focused on a mental image of an object such as a flower or a pebble. With mindfulness one seeks to attend to that image continuously without disengaging from it, but in the early phases of this practice, the duration of such continuous attention is extremely short. Indeed, many novices are astonished and dismayed in the early phases of this training to discover how chaotic their minds actually are!
The task is to strike a balance, to find a middle way, to learn not to overextend with extraneous activities and preoccupations, but to simplify life. This journey has taken me through suffering and difficulties, but through them I strive to learn my limitations and discover my strengths.
This will enable me to gather insight to recognize truth if it comes knocking at my door,
but isn't the question "what is stopping us............", not what is.
I have based my answer on my limited knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism, thus far.
Ah. Very good. Much of the tac of this thread has been to try to figure what truth is and then to figure what prevents us from seeing it.reasonvemotion wrote:I am my own worst enemy. Thinking too much, just like too much of anything, can be detrimental to oneself.
When my thoughts are extreme, I put too much emphasis on and tremendous energy into activities from which I gain nothing.
.
To erase much of the acquired knowledge or rubbish in the mind, almost like restoring a computer to manufacturer's state, so it becomes simple, clear and your heart is the same, perhaps then truth can come into fruition.
It is extremely hard to rest undistracted in the nature of mind or to be as free as possible from the clamor of preconceived ideas even for a moment.
It has certainly eluded me up to this point as I find it almost impossible to clear and still my mind for a substantial amount of time. In Buddhism it is the most difficult of all tasks to achieve.
still my mind
In one commonly practiced Tibetan Buddhist technique for developing attentional stability and vividness the attention is focused on a mental image of an object such as a flower or a pebble. With mindfulness one seeks to attend to that image continuously without disengaging from it, but in the early phases of this practice, the duration of such continuous attention is extremely short. Indeed, many novices are astonished and dismayed in the early phases of this training to discover how chaotic their minds actually are!
The task is to strike a balance, to find a middle way, to learn not to overextend with extraneous activities and preoccupations, but to simplify life. This journey has taken me through suffering and difficulties, but through them I strive to learn my limitations and discover my strengths.
This will enable me to gather insight to recognize truth if it comes knocking at my door,
but isn't the question "what is stopping us............", not what is.
I have based my answer on my limited knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism, thus far.
and would that be you?I would suggest there are those who need no 'mental stillness' for their truth.