Anybody Want to Join My New Organization called JAMit?

[Arising_uk]

I'm sorry for all what the Romans have done to you 1500-1700 of years ago , but today in 2012 who fucking cares ??? . All what I know is that you came to a land claiming that it belongs to you according to the Torah and history . and you illegally constructed a state inside a state , you had no existence before 1948 . You constructed a religious country , I mean a religious Jewish state while all our countries are officially called Arab republics or Arab kingdoms with majority of muslims but there is no religious or Islamic states in the middle east except for Iran that's not even an Arab country .. You are destroying the history right now in the moment we are taliing , are making Jerusalem a jewish city and destroying all Islamic and Christian heritage that lasted there for hundreds of years in peace with no troubles . ...

Did I say I was Jewish? I'm an Atheist, I believe all you godbotherers are delusional and have been brainwashed as children before you could reason. As such I consider most of you mad, not least because you all believe in the same 'God' but can't get along. I see Islam as a Christian sect and Christianity as a Jewish sect and the Jewish religion as a pain-in-the-historical-arse with its idea of Theism. The bulk of the world are atheists and we're supposed to tread carefully about the godbotherers precious beliefs because it might upset them? Meh!

"who fucking cares ???" I could also apply that to the Palestinian cause?

Personally I agree that the Zionists are re-writing their history by destroying Jerusalem Christian and Islamic heritage but actually couldn't give a fuck and see it not much different from the Taliban's desecration of the Buddhist statues.

I notice that whilst you claim no Islamic states exist(although I wonder about Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Taliban Afganistan?) you also claim an "our"?

Most of your Arab nations were constructed by the West.

I'd have thought from the way you talk you'd be in favour of a Caliphate, so not much different from the Jews I'd guess. I also note that you talk about the Arab and decry the Persian? Do you also not think the Asian Muslim as good a Muslim as the Arab Muslim?

how do you call Palestinian people who fight for freedom , justice and their nation terrorists ?

Who said I did? But since they commit acts of terror against civilians I guess the phrase is apt in certain cases. Personally I believe the adage "One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter" or "Terrorists are what big armies call little ones".

[Arising_uk]

According to history Israelis have established 2 states , first one that was established in the age of Solomon prophet in Jerusalem and it was attacked and destroyed as the verse says , it was attacked by Bokhenser king of Babel civilization . The second one is this state now called Israel in the same spot of the world and now you are very wealthy and powerful as the verse says and extremely arrogant too .

Why doesn't mention it the Romans who dispersed the Jews?

You ignore that Israel is not that wealthy compared to the Arab nations. Why not look to putting ones own house in order first?

[bobevenson]

The bulk of the world are atheists.

Please cite your source. The term "bulk" is a nebulous quantity. A legitimate source would specify a percentage. A 1995 survey by Encyclopædia Britannica indicates that the non-religious are about 14.7% of the world's population, and atheists around 3.8%.

[Kayla]

How dare you use the word terrorism against people whom you stole their land ?

dude chill, take a valium

maybe you can define what you mean by 'terrorism'

i thought it meant deliberate attacks against civilians in order to achieve a military or political goals

note that the definition does not itself mean that it is always wrong

so if you think it is sometimes OK to send children to perform a suicide bombing against a supermarket just say so

[Khalid]

How dare you use the word terrorism against people whom you stole their land ?

dude chill, take a valium

maybe you can define what you mean by 'terrorism'

i thought it meant deliberate attacks against civilians in order to achieve a military or political goals

note that the definition does not itself mean that it is always wrong

so if you think it is sometimes OK to send children to perform a suicide bombing against a supermarket just say so

I didn't say that suicidal attack is a right thing against a civilian or even against military forces cause it's wrong decide to killing myself even if I think it's for noble goal or issue by bombing myself whether I was between civilians or military forces . I think the right thing is to fight a man to man in a battle , but deciding to kill myself now that's not Islam . Attacking civilians for achieving any goals also doesn't belong to Islam . But defending myself and my nation is a duty . Israel air force strikes from time to time Ghaza region and their rockets do not differentiate between a civilian and terrorists or Armed people , a child or a gunman . Btw I wish know your opinion about the thread I wrote in political forum yesterday about Arab/Israeli conflict where I wrote my personal definition of terrorism .

[chaz wyman]

How dare you use the word terrorism against people whom you stole their land ?

dude chill, take a valium

maybe you can define what you mean by 'terrorism'

i thought it meant deliberate attacks against civilians in order to achieve a military or political goals

note that the definition does not itself mean that it is always wrong

so if you think it is sometimes OK to send children to perform a suicide bombing against a supermarket just say so

I didn't say that suicidal attack is a right thing against a civilian or even against military forces cause it's wrong decide to killing myself even if I think it's for noble goal or issue by bombing myself whether I was between civilians or military forces . I think the right thing is to fight a man to man in a battle , but deciding to kill myself now that's not Islam . Attacking civilians for achieving any goals also doesn't belong to Islam . But defending myself and my nation is a duty . Israel air force strikes from time to time Ghaza region and their rockets do not differentiate between a civilian and terrorists or Armed people , a child or a gunman . Btw I wish know your opinion about the thread I wrote in political forum yesterday about Arab/Israeli conflict where I wrote my personal definition of terrorism .

So where does it say in the Koran that sacrificing your life is forbidden. And what is the difference between going into battle when you know you will die and letting off a bomb you are wearing against a target?

[Khalid]

dude chill, take a valium

maybe you can define what you mean by 'terrorism'

i thought it meant deliberate attacks against civilians in order to achieve a military or political goals

note that the definition does not itself mean that it is always wrong

so if you think it is sometimes OK to send children to perform a suicide bombing against a supermarket just say so

I didn't say that suicidal attack is a right thing against a civilian or even against military forces cause it's wrong decide to killing myself even if I think it's for noble goal or issue by bombing myself whether I was between civilians or military forces . I think the right thing is to fight a man to man in a battle , but deciding to kill myself now that's not Islam . Attacking civilians for achieving any goals also doesn't belong to Islam . But defending myself and my nation is a duty . Israel air force strikes from time to time Ghaza region and their rockets do not differentiate between a civilian and terrorists or Armed people , a child or a gunman . Btw I wish know your opinion about the thread I wrote in political forum yesterday about Arab/Israeli conflict where I wrote my personal definition of terrorism .

So where does it say in the Koran that sacrificing your life is forbidden. And what is the difference between going into battle when you know you will die and letting off a bomb you are wearing against a target?

There are two verses that clearly prohibit suicide .
1-" Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!"
2-" and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction"
I personally think that in a battle you fight with chances of death or survive but in a suicidal job , I'm not sure how God is gonna deal with that but I'm afraid that's suicide even if it was for a noble goal .

[chaz wyman]

I didn't say that suicidal attack is a right thing against a civilian or even against military forces cause it's wrong decide to killing myself even if I think it's for noble goal or issue by bombing myself whether I was between civilians or military forces . I think the right thing is to fight a man to man in a battle , but deciding to kill myself now that's not Islam . Attacking civilians for achieving any goals also doesn't belong to Islam . But defending myself and my nation is a duty . Israel air force strikes from time to time Ghaza region and their rockets do not differentiate between a civilian and terrorists or Armed people , a child or a gunman . Btw I wish know your opinion about the thread I wrote in political forum yesterday about Arab/Israeli conflict where I wrote my personal definition of terrorism .

So where does it say in the Koran that sacrificing your life is forbidden. And what is the difference between going into battle when you know you will die and letting off a bomb you are wearing against a target?

There are two verses that clearly prohibit suicide .
1-" Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!"
2-" and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction"
I personally think that in a battle you fight with chances of death or survive but in a suicidal job , I'm not sure how God is gonna deal with that but I'm afraid that's suicide even if it was for a noble goal .

Where in the Koran do these verses appear?

These verses seem to proscribe any action in which you would willingly risk your life; including joining a war.

[Khalid]

There are two verses that clearly prohibit suicide .
1-" Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!"
2-" and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction"
I personally think that in a battle you fight with chances of death or survive but in a suicidal job , I'm not sure how God is gonna deal with that but I'm afraid that's suicide even if it was for a noble goal .

Where in the Koran do these verses appear?

These verses seem ton proscribe any action in which you would willingly risk your life; including joining a war.

the first verse is 4:29 ... the second one 2:195 ... you can brows the quran in a very easy and organized way on this site . http://www.harunyahya.com/bilgi/kurani-kerim

The first verse says clearly don't kill yourself , that means don't decide by any mean to deliberately end your life even if you suffer terrible psychological or physical pains . And the second one can be applied on people who take drugs for example or do any acts that may lead to death . But fighting for justice , for your country , your religion is something absolutely different . And people who die in wars for justice or for something righteous and noble are called Shaheed in Islam that means martyr , and a martyr goes to paradise and is highly awarded by God . I know I sound like a sheikh in this comment but I hope my explanation is right anyway .

[chaz wyman]

There are two verses that clearly prohibit suicide .
1-" Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!"
2-" and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction"
I personally think that in a battle you fight with chances of death or survive but in a suicidal job , I'm not sure how God is gonna deal with that but I'm afraid that's suicide even if it was for a noble goal .

Where in the Koran do these verses appear?

These verses seem ton proscribe any action in which you would willingly risk your life; including joining a war.

the first verse is 4:29 ... the second one 2:195 ... you can brows the quran in a very easy and organized way on this site . http://www.harunyahya.com/bilgi/kurani-kerim

The first verse says clearly don't kill yourself , that means don't decide by any mean to deliberately end your life even if you suffer terrible psychological or physical pains . And the second one can be applied on people who take drugs for example or do any acts that may lead to death . But fighting for justice , for your country , your religion is something absolutely different .

This is a philosophy website. If you can't see the contradiction then you need to open your eyes.

If you go into a battle you know you cannot win, how is that different from sacrificing your life for a good cause by any other means?




And people who die in wars for justice or for something righteous and noble are called Shaheed in Islam that means martyr , and a martyr goes to paradise and is highly awarded by God .

WHich is no different from suicide bombing.

I know I sound like a sheikh in this comment but I hope my explanation is right anyway .

I think like most religious people, you see what you want to see and disregard what does not suit your preconceptions.

Neither of these verse has fuck all to do with war and death, but it is all about business.



4:29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.

2:195 Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.

[Khalid]

This is a philosophy website. If you can't see the contradiction then you need to open your eyes.
If you go into a battle you know you cannot win, how is that different from sacrificing your life for a good cause by any other means?

Alright , let's explain the two situations , If all sheikhs (Religious Men) of Egypt came to me and said wear this explosive jacket and go bomb yourself among some Israeli motherf****s and you will be in heaven , I'd tell them , no thank you I wanna stay here on earth cause I don't really think I will go to any heaven .
The second situation , There was a war between Egypt and Israel in the past after Israel occupied Sinai desert , and in October 6 , 1973 , 300,000 soldier was ordered to cross the suez canal to the other bank and destroy the enemy's forces , if I was one of them and died in that case .. would that be suicide according to your way of thinking ?

And people who die in wars for justice or for something righteous and noble are called Shaheed in Islam that means martyr , and a martyr goes to paradise and is highly awarded by God.

WHich is no different from suicide bombing.
.

Well , it's a matter of personal point of view then not an islamic principle or rule . I personally think that a death in a war is different from a death that happens by clicking the button of explosive bombs that I planted in my body .

[Khalid]

I think like most religious people, you see what you want to see and disregard what does not suit your preconceptions.

Neither of these verse has fuck all to do with war and death, but it is all about business.



4:29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.

2:195 Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.

My friend if you read the verses in Arabic you will find it alittle bit different from that translation .

the first part talks about money and business . but the part that says kill not one another is wrongly translated and you can find the whole verse in a another translation in the link I wrote to you in my previous comment . In fact the right translation would be " Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!" .. and this is how I wrote it in the first time . what the verse literally says don't kill yourselves in a general way , and it's an independent point from the one that came before it that talks about how to spend money in the society

and be not cast by your own hands to ruin

.

the second verse : also this translation isn't 100% accurate .but anyway the verse still carries the meaning I said , don't expose yourself and your life to dangers . I swear this is the literal discussion I found on google of it .

[chaz wyman]

I think like most religious people, you see what you want to see and disregard what does not suit your preconceptions.

Neither of these verse has fuck all to do with war and death, but it is all about business.



4:29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.

2:195 Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.

My friend if you read the verses in Arabic you will find it alittle bit different from that translation .

the first part talks about money and business . but the part that says kill not one another is wrongly translated and you can find the whole verse in a another translation in the link I wrote to you in my previous comment . In fact the right translation would be " Don't kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!" .. and this is how I wrote it in the first time . what the verse literally says don't kill yourselves in a general way , and it's an independent point from the one that came before it that talks about how to spend money in the society

and be not cast by your own hands to ruin

.

the second verse : also this translation isn't 100% accurate .but anyway the verse still carries the meaning I said , don't expose yourself and your life to dangers . I swear this is the literal discussion I found on google of it .

There is no such thing as a 100% accurate literal translation. Most of the Koran is a confused collection of contradictory apothegms and aphorisms written by a semi-literate committee of sheep herding morons.
It is cobbled together from a series of older defunct texts by desperate and uneducated people.
Only a fool would follow these words.

[bobevenson]

Most of the Koran is a confused collection of contradictory apothegms and aphorisms written by a semi-literate committee of sheep herding morons.It is cobbled together from a series of older defunct texts by desperate and uneducated people. Only a fool would follow these words.

You are about one step away from having a fatwa issued against you.

[John]

Also, unless anyone is claiming that the USA is covertly organising or abetting all terrorist activity it seems a bit presumptuous, and possibly a touch arrogant, to think that no one could have pulled off 9/11 without their help.
Who said this? I don't think that the potential for the US PTB being responsible for 9/11 indicates that this is necessarily so. As a matter of fact, I see this as a convoluted proposal that comes out of nowhere. I see no substance in your words whatsoever.

I'm merely suggesting that it also suited the agenda on the perpetrators and if they had the ability to carry out the threat then why add another complicating factor by suggesting that the US was somehow complicit? I've heard people say things like "they couldn't have pulled it off without inside help" and I'm saying that they could and they probably (almost certainly IMO) did.