Once again I ask you the question.Have you read the Bible
I've read a little too of the bible but I know most of Christianity message in general . Excuse me , I have to sleep now . I will continue answering you tomorrow .reasonemotion wrote:Once again I ask you the question.Have you read the Bible
I have read only a little of the Koran and it is a beautifully inspired or written book of prose.
From a Western point of view which means my own view, I appreciate the Koran for its beauty as I do the poetry of Hafez of Shiraz. To embrace the Koran as my inspired word of God would be impossible for me.
My religion or philosophy, call it what you will is not in either the Koran or The Bible.
I would like an answer to my question.
1- I don't accept Taliban's society and way of life . I think they are people who mis-understand Islam so stop bringing them as example . On the other hand I can't accept the life style of western countries where I have to accept knowing that my sister or my mother getting fucked by her boyfriend . Adultey is a very big sin in Islam , and I don't need to find out why did God prohibet adultey , I was grown up with this nature and I'm satisfied with what God prohibet us from doing . This is faith and this is the kindness and purity . And when I marry the girl I love , she becomes a very valuable and precious person in my life because she stick to her purity and chastity , she kept herself for only me . Not the western freedom and way of life where a woman is only a sexual object to the man .Kayla wrote:ok and what are the pros and cons of having and not having sexual freedomKhalid wrote:Our eastern nature and culture is a very strong reason or motivation to not accept sexual freedom in our societies , not only religion .
what degree of sexual freedom is acceptable
on one end of the continuum we have the taliban - at least the way they are portrayed in our press
on the other end of the continuum we have San Franciscans as many southern Baptists imagine them
is there a rational way to determine which part of the continuum is optimal
Me too , I think this punishment shouldn't be implemented by anyway in the world of today .
I personally think it's both my view and Islamic view too . I'm sure if Muhammed prophet is here today he wouldn't implement this punishment of adultery .Kayla wrote:ok that was not too difficult was it
is this your personal view or do you think that this is Islamic view
Be sure to read the book of Revelation, followed by "The Ouzo Prophecy".Khalid wrote:I've read a little too of the bible.
You're looking at things the wrong way. Seeing her purity and chastity, only keeping it for you, as so important as to be something you might kill her for, is the epitome of treating her as a sex object. If one doesn't really care about her purity and chastity, and keeping it just for them, and still marries and loves her anyway, means that they see a lot more in her than merely her as a pure and chaste sex object. I don't know, maybe something silly, like her mind?Khalid wrote:1- I don't accept Taliban's society and way of life . I think they are people who mis-understand Islam so stop bringing them as example . On the other hand I can't accept the life style of western countries where I have to accept knowing that my sister or my mother getting fucked by her boyfriend . Adultey is a very big sin in Islam , and I don't need to find out why did God prohibet adultey , I was grown up with this nature and I'm satisfied with what God prohibet us from doing . This is faith and this is the kindness and purity . And when I marry the girl I love , she becomes a very valuable and precious person in my life because she stick to her purity and chastity , she kept herself for only me . Not the western freedom and way of life where a woman is only a sexual object to the man .Kayla wrote:ok and what are the pros and cons of having and not having sexual freedomKhalid wrote:Our eastern nature and culture is a very strong reason or motivation to not accept sexual freedom in our societies , not only religion .
what degree of sexual freedom is acceptable
on one end of the continuum we have the taliban - at least the way they are portrayed in our press
on the other end of the continuum we have San Franciscans as many southern Baptists imagine them
is there a rational way to determine which part of the continuum is optimal
Love is the thing that gonna make me decide to marry some girl , that means her way of thinking , her character , her soul , her smile , beauty and everything . So I chose my girl for all this not because she has nice legs , sexy chest or good performance in bed .. How is it me the one that sees girls sex objects ? ..SpheresOfBalance wrote:You're looking at things the wrong way. Seeing her purity and chastity, only keeping it for you, as so important as to be something you might kill her for, is the epitome of treating her as a sex object. If one doesn't really care about her purity and chastity, and keeping it just for them, and still marries and loves her anyway, means that they see a lot more in her than merely her as a pure and chaste sex object. I don't know, maybe something silly, like her mind?Khalid wrote:1- I don't accept Taliban's society and way of life . I think they are people who mis-understand Islam so stop bringing them as example . On the other hand I can't accept the life style of western countries where I have to accept knowing that my sister or my mother getting fucked by her boyfriend . Adultey is a very big sin in Islam , and I don't need to find out why did God prohibet adultey , I was grown up with this nature and I'm satisfied with what God prohibet us from doing . This is faith and this is the kindness and purity . And when I marry the girl I love , she becomes a very valuable and precious person in my life because she stick to her purity and chastity , she kept herself for only me . Not the western freedom and way of life where a woman is only a sexual object to the man .Kayla wrote: ok and what are the pros and cons of having and not having sexual freedom
what degree of sexual freedom is acceptable
on one end of the continuum we have the taliban - at least the way they are portrayed in our press
on the other end of the continuum we have San Franciscans as many southern Baptists imagine them
is there a rational way to determine which part of the continuum is optimal
this maybe a good time to remind you that 'western countries' are a rather large set of countries and cultures with substantial differences between themKhalid wrote:1- I don't accept Taliban's society and way of life . I think they are people who mis-understand Islam so stop bringing them as example . On the other hand I can't accept the life style of western countries
please explain to me why i should concern myself with what exactly my brothers do with their girlfriendswhere I have to accept knowing that my sister or my mother getting fucked by her boyfriend .
yeah it is a big deal here too as is cheating on ones boyfriend or girlfriendAdultey is a very big sin in Islam ,
well this is a philosophy forum and not aand I don't need to find out why did God prohibet adultey ,
what are you sources of information about the western way of lifeNot the western freedom and way of life where a woman is only a sexual object to the man .
You should advise them that sex without marriage is a very bad thing and it causes the anger of God . That's of-course in case you are a muslim and having faith in the after life .please explain to me why i should concern myself with what exactly my brothers do with their girlfriends
Sorry , it seems that I have a miss-understanding to the meaning of adultery . I thought adultery means heaving sex before marriage not only cheating on ones wide or husband (bf or gf in the civilized west) . so this what I meant when saying that adultery is a very big sin in Islam .yeah it is a big deal here too as is cheating on ones boyfriend or girlfriend
i am not sure why you keep going on about it no one here is defending adultery
I heard that having sex in your countries at any age in anywhere is legal according to law , homosexuality is legal too ,even porn movies makers the police has nothing against them eitherwhat are you sources of information about the western way of life
.. Was I mistaken about anything ?why would god care if someone has sex with a steady girlfriend or boyfriendKhalid wrote:You should advise them that sex without marriage is a very bad thing and it causes the anger of God . That's of-course in case you are a muslim and having faith in the after life .
adultery refers specifically to cheating on ones husband or wifeSorry , it seems that I have a miss-understanding to the meaning of adultery . I thought adultery means heaving sex before marriage not only cheating on ones wide or husband (bf or gf in the civilized west) . so this what I meant when saying that adultery is a very big sin in Islam .
where did you hear thatI heard that having sex in your countries at any age in anywhere is legal according to law ,
it is although my state - texas - was the last one in the usa to allow it and the supreme court had to make themhomosexuality is legal too ,
porn is legal as long as everyone involved is a consenting adulteven porn movies makers the police has nothing against them either
Kayla wrote: ok and what are the pros and cons of having and not having sexual freedom
what degree of sexual freedom is acceptable
on one end of the continuum we have the taliban - at least the way they are portrayed in our press
on the other end of the continuum we have San Franciscans as many southern Baptists imagine them
is there a rational way to determine which part of the continuum is optimal
What I'm saying is that I agree with you, and yet I see that it can be seen from the opposite perspective and make just as much sense. OK, I agree that for a male to use a female for sex and then leave her, is objectifying her, she was his sex object, we'll call it the way of the west. But I see that it's also true that if a male hold's 'anything' related to a females sex, be it her easiness or chastity, above her head, as being one of the most important things, that decides how he relates to her, is just as objectifying. Do you see my point? The only way a male does not objectify a female, with respect to her sex, is when 'nothing' pertaining to her sex is more important than she is, as the more frail, soft, nurturing, kind, and gentle of the human equation. I am not attempting to diminish the male/female sexual dichotomy as it is part of the very foundation of the human equation.Khalid wrote:Love is the thing that gonna make me decide to marry some girl , that means her way of thinking , her character , her soul , her smile , beauty and everything . So I chose my girl for all this not because she has nice legs , sexy chest or good performance in bed .. How is it me the one that sees girls sex objects ? ..SpheresOfBalance wrote:You're looking at things the wrong way. Seeing her purity and chastity, only keeping it for you, as so important as to be something you might kill her for, is the epitome of treating her as a sex object. If one doesn't really care about her purity and chastity, and keeping it just for them, and still marries and loves her anyway, means that they see a lot more in her than merely her as a pure and chaste sex object. I don't know, maybe something silly, like her mind?Khalid wrote:1- I don't accept Taliban's society and way of life . I think they are people who mis-understand Islam so stop bringing them as example . On the other hand I can't accept the life style of western countries where I have to accept knowing that my sister or my mother getting fucked by her boyfriend . Adultey is a very big sin in Islam , and I don't need to find out why did God prohibet adultey , I was grown up with this nature and I'm satisfied with what God prohibet us from doing . This is faith and this is the kindness and purity . And when I marry the girl I love , she becomes a very valuable and precious person in my life because she stick to her purity and chastity , she kept herself for only me . Not the western freedom and way of life where a woman is only a sexual object to the man .
Alright , first of all , I don't have fantasy about the sexualized west . I was simply describing the image I've of way of life that I learned from media about life in most of western countries where level of sexual freedom is higher than ours here in Eastern Arab countries . For example , you can show porn scenes in a cinema movie (Woman's chest can be shown) , I know it's limited but that also doesn't happen here , we don't have that freedom in movies , We don't make porn movies as well , you have songs talking about sex , we don't have that . so I don't think I have a wrong conception about freedom level and how life is in the west .Kayla wrote:khalid
you still have not answered my initial question concerning the permissibility of dating in islam
contrary to your twisted fantasy about the sexualized west plenty of people in my neck of the woods do not have random daily sex with strangers and choosing to wait until marriage (well, until one is engaged anyway what is the point of waiting at that point) is not rare
please comment
I personally think meeting a girl in public (a college classmate for example) without doing or talking about anything wrong is not prohibited by Islam . A respectful relationship between a boy and a girl also not wrong I think . But in the end if I'm a muslim , no body should expect me to be an angel who doesn't make any mistakes or wrongs , even prophets made wrongs . I just have to the best I can be and always ask God forgiveness , this is how I live .but a lot of people have boyfriends and girlfriends with who they do not have sex or even do sexual things short of actual sex - but they do spend time together unsupervised
according to a muslim classmate, even that is forbidden by islam which strikes me as totally ridiculous
Ex-Muslim Speaks Out about 'The Koran Dilemma'
By Erick Stakelbeck
CBN News Terrorism Analyst Friday, May 11, 2012
These days al Fadi, which is a pseudonym, lives in the West. He also left Islam for Christianity, a move that would bring a death sentence in his native country.
"The Koran will emphatically say in chapter 4, verse 157 that the crucifiction never took place, that someone else was made to look like Jesus and was put in his place," Fadi explained.
"So you learn all of these things and then of course you learn that the Koran tells you to hate the Christians and the Jews," he said.
Fadi wants to bring these bitter truths about Islam's holiest book to a Western audience. Like other former Muslims, he's written a book called 'The Qur'an Dilemma.'
