Scientific Facts In The Quran

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Kayla »

Khalid wrote:Sex before marriage is forbidden just whether you like it or not , whether I myself like it or not, it's a rule for those believe in God and in the judgement day and we have to accept it without arguments
i said having a boyfriend not having sex

it is quite possible to have a boyfriend without having sex

my muslim classmate even believes that it is a sin to just hang out with a boy with no sex that is definitely retarded

this is a philosophy forum

if God were to show up here and make pronouncements he'd get arguments and he'd better provide justification for his statements

and this goes infinitefold for you
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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

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Khalid wrote:And yes Saudi Arabia has islamic law but believe me that punishment is rarely used , and it only used against a married woman who betrays her husband or a husband who betrays her woman . I myself could possibly kill my wife if she betrays me .
saying that its rarely used is not much of an excuse here

its like saying

i almost never fuck goats
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reasonemotion
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

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The Bible v The Koran

It appears the Koran, contradicts the Bible in many of the details of its stories.

Apparently there is enough evidence to support the claim that the Koran may have been tampered with. It doesnt seem reasonable that Christians or Jews could be accused of altering their Scriptures as in the book of Revelation God puts a severe punishment on those who add to or take away, any part of God's Word. (See Revelation 22:18 & 19).

Have you read the Bible and do you agree or disagree regarding the comments above.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Khalid wrote:
John wrote:
Khalid wrote:I myself could possibly kill my wife if she betrays me .
Do you mean you would be allowed to kill your wife if she betrayed you or that you believe you would be capable and prepared to do so?
No , I would not be allowed but law punishment in this case here in Egypt would be prison for 3 year or maybe not even getting jailed , this is the law here . but what I did mean is that I would kill my wife because the feeling of betrayal is very harsh and can't be forgiven easily . It's something that I could not stand .
What kind of betrayal are you talking about, Infidelity? How in the hell do you equate screwing someone, other than your husband, with death? Oh so you're feelings get hurt so you want to kill someone? Cry me a river! I got a better idea, instead kill the one that thinks killing is equal to infidelity, because they're fucking nuts. So you should kill yourself if she cheats on you, because the pain of her doing so, is so great. What if she is raped, in the news I heard of a bunch of Muslims stoning a girl to death because she was raped. I think that people that believe that kind of crap are insane because they've been in the sun so long that their brains have fried. Killing is forever my friend, if you're so fond of killing, why don't you try it on, yourself, just for size, and let us know how it went.

You know that's one thing I never understood about you religious freaks. On the one hand, you say that GOD created everything, and that you should worship him, and hold sacred all that he has done. Then on the other hand you think it's OK to destroy one of his creations, so he created a life for you to destroy, get the fuck out of here! GOD absolutely did not create things just so you could walk behind him and destroy it. Food is one thing, it is the cycle of life, but needless killing out of selfishness, pain, distress, jealousy, coveting, because I want to, etc., can in no way be seen as justifiable in the eyes of GOD. Do you know how long it took him to create all this, according to the scientific fossil record, but then really you'd have to go back even further, billions of years, just to have some puny mortal human mess with his creation. I don't care what mortal men have written in books, I see that any man that kills for any other reason except for defense is going straight to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.00, and shall never see life everlasting.

Actually I don't believe in any of that religious crap.

Of course I've always loved the ancient Egyptians, for their architecture and art, they were an interesting people, you gotta love that part of their culture.
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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Kayla »

spheres, i think ';khalid' is another id used by 'bobevenson

he is too much of a blatant stereotype to be real
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Arising_uk »

Khalid wrote:... But what's really unique and can be considered as a miracle is that there are many scientific facts that were mentioned 1400-1500 years ago when those facts were not discovered yet and which we discovered short time ago. ...
Not really. What you are doing here is selective interpretation and reading with confirmation bias. You can pretty much do this with the Bible if you wish.

I'd worry more that Islam is going backwards from its past where it once embraced other cultures thoughts and improved and used them. After all if it wasn't for Islam the scholastics wouldn't have had Aristotle and the Greeks to relearn. But from what I understand the scientific education trend in some Islamic countries is concerned with the kind of nonsense examples you provide rather than science itself.
... you don't need to be a philosopher to acknowledge God and believe in him, ...
In fact being a philosopher may prove pretty much an obstacle to believing in such an entity. As show me one.
... just look at a 2 years old child smiling , a beautiful natural scene , and you may feel him but the mind must be used to approve the heart and feel the guidness and the right path in life .
True but is it necessary to clutter its mind with non-existent entities, why not wait until they can reason and then propose these things to them?
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Kayla wrote:spheres, i think ';khalid' is another id used by 'bobevenson

he is too much of a blatant stereotype to be real
You could be right Kayla, I have no way of knowing for sure, I just have a hard time believing Bob could be knowledgeable enough, and be capable of putting on that mask, considering his belief in him being a prophet, because at times he sounds like he may actually believe it.
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

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SpheresOfBalance wrote: What kind of betrayal are you talking about, Infidelity? How in the hell do you equate screwing someone, other than your husband, with death? Oh so you're feelings get hurt so you want to kill someone? Cry me a river! I got a better idea, instead kill the one that thinks killing is equal to infidelity, because they're fucking nuts. So you should kill yourself if she cheats on you, because the pain of her doing so, is so great. What if she is raped, in the news I heard of a bunch of Muslims stoning a girl to death because she was raped. I think that people that believe that kind of crap are insane because they've been in the sun so long that their brains have fried. Killing is forever my friend, if you're so fond of killing, why don't you try it on, yourself, just for size, and let us know how it went.

You know that's one thing I never understood about you religious freaks. On the one hand, you say that GOD created everything, and that you should worship him, and hold sacred all that he has done. Then on the other hand you think it's OK to destroy one of his creations, so he created a life for you to destroy, get the fuck out of here! GOD absolutely did not create things just so you could walk behind him and destroy it. Food is one thing, it is the cycle of life, but needless killing out of selfishness, pain, distress, jealousy, coveting, because I want to, etc., can in no way be seen as justifiable in the eyes of GOD. Do you know how long it took him to create all this, according to the scientific fossil record, but then really you'd have to go back even further, billions of years, just to have some puny mortal human mess with his creation. I don't care what mortal men have written in books, I see that any man that kills for any other reason except for defense is going straight to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.00, and shall never see life everlasting.

Actually I don't believe in any of that religious crap.

Of course I've always loved the ancient Egyptians, for their architecture and art, they were an interesting people, you gotta love that part of their culture.
It could be normal for you to know that your sister is having sex with some guy , but here it's absolutly different . It's something that has nothing to do with religion , it's how I was grown up as an eastern man and this is our Arab sexual culture . Call it extermism but it's a nature . I just wanted to say in the comment above that sexual betrayl is something that is very intolerable that can turn my life into hell but I don't think It's right or allowed by God to kill my wife even in case of betrayl , it was just an exaggeration . But you and Kayla now take it as a nice weapon to attack me , you've sniped my mistake , that's clever , keep going . But if you know the Egyptian accent I swear we use exaggerated meanings in describing things . And this is how I wanted to describe my condition in case of betrayl.
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

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Kayla wrote:spheres, i think ';khalid' is another id used by 'bobevenson

he is too much of a blatant stereotype to be real
That's smart, keep going .
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Khalid wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: What kind of betrayal are you talking about, Infidelity? How in the hell do you equate screwing someone, other than your husband, with death? Oh so you're feelings get hurt so you want to kill someone? Cry me a river! I got a better idea, instead kill the one that thinks killing is equal to infidelity, because they're fucking nuts. So you should kill yourself if she cheats on you, because the pain of her doing so, is so great. What if she is raped, in the news I heard of a bunch of Muslims stoning a girl to death because she was raped. I think that people that believe that kind of crap are insane because they've been in the sun so long that their brains have fried. Killing is forever my friend, if you're so fond of killing, why don't you try it on, yourself, just for size, and let us know how it went.

You know that's one thing I never understood about you religious freaks. On the one hand, you say that GOD created everything, and that you should worship him, and hold sacred all that he has done. Then on the other hand you think it's OK to destroy one of his creations, so he created a life for you to destroy, get the fuck out of here! GOD absolutely did not create things just so you could walk behind him and destroy it. Food is one thing, it is the cycle of life, but needless killing out of selfishness, pain, distress, jealousy, coveting, because I want to, etc., can in no way be seen as justifiable in the eyes of GOD. Do you know how long it took him to create all this, according to the scientific fossil record, but then really you'd have to go back even further, billions of years, just to have some puny mortal human mess with his creation. I don't care what mortal men have written in books, I see that any man that kills for any other reason except for defense is going straight to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.00, and shall never see life everlasting.

Actually I don't believe in any of that religious crap.

Of course I've always loved the ancient Egyptians, for their architecture and art, they were an interesting people, you gotta love that part of their culture.
It could be normal for you to know that your sister is having sex with some guy , but here it's absolutly different . It's something that has nothing to do with religion , it's how I was grown up as an eastern man and this is our Arab sexual culture . Call it extermism but it's a nature . I just wanted to say in the comment above that sexual betrayl is something that is very intolerable that can turn my life into hell but I don't think It's right or allowed by God to kill my wife even in case of betrayl , it was just an exaggeration . But you and Kayla now take it as a nice weapon to attack me , you've sniped my mistake , that's clever , keep going . But if you know the Egyptian accent I swear we use exaggerated meanings in describing things . And this is how I wanted to describe my condition in case of betrayl.
Look I'm not against you, I'm not against Islam, I'm not against Muslims, and I believe that all cultures are just as important as the next, but I draw the line at killing people for selfish reasons. Because we are not gods, we are simply people, and people are flawed in many ways, even in their minds, for a great many reasons. People may know what they believe, but no one knows completely, why they believe, at least not with any understanding that would allow them to objectively look at themselves, and see ALL that has caused them to believe, in every nuance of that belief. For instance one such bit of knowledge tells me that if you and I had been switched at birth, yet been exposed to the exact same experiences that the other has, in this current life, we would largely believe as the other currently does, such that I'd be there saying as you have, while you'd be here saying as I have, as each and every person on the face of this earth, is a product of their environment. Understanding this, it is easy to see that the only life one has TOTAL DOMINION over, is our own, as that is the only one that makes any sense to each of us, such that as much as we can, we can only account for that which we are individually. It is impossible to crawl into the mind of another, and know what they have encountered, that makes them what they are today. If someone does something that is objectionable to us, we have no way of understanding the full reason as to why they did so. Something in their individual life's experience, may have compelled them to do as they did, and it may be due to a trauma that they have, as yet, failed to fully understand, such is the human mind. It's not a matter of simply being obedient, who wants a slave in their wife, anyway? We have a modern pop/rock song in the west that says, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me, I'd love you to love me." This is what everyone should want. Who really wants to force someone to want, need and love them, really? It really can't be done. If they don't, it's best to let them go so you can find someone that does, and so can they, sure it's not easy, but it's the only thing that's fair! And in the end, it always makes one stronger. Them not wanting you, does not necessarily reflect upon your inabilities, but most often reflects upon them, so there really is no shame for the one that still wants to try, but that does not mean that the one that no longer does, is truly at fault either, they can simply be mixed up, confused, and not really of a malicious nature. No one deserves to die, just for being confused.
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Sun May 13, 2012 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

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Khalid wrote:It could be normal for you to know that your sister is having sex with some guy , but here it's absolutly different .
the thought of my brothers having sex with their girlfriends does not bother me in the slightest

but in any case, this is a philosophy forum

You should be able to talk about your culture and be able to be critical about it and accept others being critical of it, and be willing to justify your cultural practices and admit that there is no justification
It's something that has nothing to do with religion , it's how I was grown up as an eastern man and this is our Arab sexual culture
you did not make it clear that this was not a religious thing
But if you know the Egyptian accent I swear we use exaggerated meanings in describing things . And this is how I wanted to describe my condition in case of betrayl.
yes i have heard that this is part of the arab way of speaking but without you pointing this out i would not have thought of it

ok so islam does not approve of killing one's spouse oneself if you catch them cheating on you we got that

but there still remains the question of judicial executions for adultery

as much as i am on board with the idea of adultery (or for that matter cheating on ones boyfriend or girlfriend) being a very bad thing execution for it seems insanely extreme even if it is not done very often
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Khalid »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Look I'm not against you, I'm not against Islam, I'm not against Muslims, and I believe that all cultures are just as important as the next, but I draw the line at killing people for selfish reasons. Because we are not gods, we are simply people, and people are flawed in many ways, even in their minds, for a great many reasons. People may know what they believe, but no one knows completely, why they believe, at least not with any understanding that would allow them to objectively look at themselves, and see ALL that has caused them to believe, in every nuance of that belief. For instance one such bit of knowledge tells me that if you and I had been switched at birth, yet been exposed to the exact same experiences that the other has, in this current life, we would largely believe as the other currently does, such that I'd be there saying as you have, while you'd be here saying as I have, as each and every person on the face of this earth, is a product of their environment. Understanding this, it is easy to see that the only life one has TOTAL DOMINION over, is our own, as that is the only one that makes any sense to each of us, such that as much as we can, we can only account for that which we are individually. It is impossible to crawl into the mind of another, and know what they have encountered, that makes them what they are today. If someone does something that is objectionable to us, we have no way of understanding the full reason as to why they did so. Something in their individual life's experience, may have compelled them to do as they did, and it may be due to a trauma that they have, as yet, failed to fully understand, such is the human mind. It's not a matter of simply being obedient, who wants a slave in their wife, anyway? We have a modern pop/rock song in the west that says, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me, I'd love you to love me." This is what everyone should want. Who really wants to force someone to want, need and love them, really? It really can't be done. If they don't, it's best to let them go so you can find someone that does, and so can they, sure it's not easy, but it's the only thing that's fair! And in the end, it always makes one stronger. Them not wanting you, does not necessarily reflect upon your inabilities, but most often reflects upon them, so there really is no shame for the one that still wants to try, but that does not mean that the one that no longer does, is truly at fault either, they can simply be mixed up, confused, and not really of a malicious nature. No one deserves to die, just for being confused.
First of all , I absolutely agree with most of what you said , specially in point that no body can claim that he has the right to end somebody's life in any case except for self-defence as you said in a previous comment .
as each and every person on the face of this earth, is a product of their environment.

This is what I said about our eastern culture and nature . You can say that our way of life is not as openable as yours , we don't have the same level of freedom in our culture .
People may know what they believe, but no one knows completely, why they believe, at least not with any understanding that would allow them to objectively look at themselves, and see ALL that has caused them to believe, in every nuance of that belief.
I disagree in this point . I personally have objectively looked at myself and at my religion . I compared it with other religions and I spent some years looking for the truth on only mental bases without any influences of the religion I was born with or that one written in my I.D . I tried to find the truth myself . Do God exist ? Who is the creator ? If God is the creator , Where did God came from ? Why did he chose no to be seen ? .. All those mental questions that go around in the minds of atheists and minds of people who simply don't believe in any religion . I was neutral as much as possible . Then I started to read the Quran book and all my life changed for many reasons . So I think all people should make a stand with themselves and think generally about life and it's meaning .
We have a modern pop/rock song in the west that says, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me, I'd love you to love me." This is what everyone should want. Who really wants to force someone to want, need and love them, really? It really can't be done. If they don't, it's best to let them go so you can find someone that does, and so can they, sure it's not easy, but it's the only thing that's fair
I agree with you but this case is different . I mean if my wife comes and tell me that I don't love you and we can't continue life together . I have no problem and I should get out of her life quietly . But betrayal is different , deceiving is different .
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Khalid »

Kayla wrote:
the thought of my brothers having sex with their girlfriends does not bother me in the slightest

but in any case, this is a philosophy forum

You should be able to talk about your culture and be able to be critical about it and accept others being critical of it, and be willing to justify your cultural practices and admit that there is no justification

That's right and I accept others criticism of anything .

Kayla wrote:
It's something that has nothing to do with religion , it's how I was grown up as an eastern man and this is our Arab sexual culture


you did not make it clear that this was not a religious thing
Our eastern nature and culture is a very strong reason or motivation to not accept sexual freedom in our societies , not only religion . but in the above comment I made , I was talking about the strong motivation in me to revenge in case of my wife betrays me .
but there still remains the question of judicial executions for adultery

as much as i am on board with the idea of adultery (or for that matter cheating on ones boyfriend or girlfriend) being a very bad thing execution for it seems insanely extreme even if it is not done very often
Me too , I think this punishment shouldn't be implemented by anyway in the world of today .
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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Kayla »

Khalid wrote:I personally have objectively looked at myself and at my religion .
how do you know you were objective

how did you know you had no biases at all

the curious thing about people trying to look at things 'objectively' is that the all too often arrive at the conclusion that the views around them are the correct ones

descartes tried to examine everything from first principles discarding all biases and ended up with concluding that his religion is true

kant tried to be objective and come up with a system of ethics that was universal and at the end looked suspiciously like the ethics of 18th century german pietists

now perhaps you are a lot more intelligent than kant or descartes were in which case please tell us how you avoided their mistakes
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Kayla
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Re: Scientific Facts In The Quran

Post by Kayla »

Khalid wrote:Our eastern nature and culture is a very strong reason or motivation to not accept sexual freedom in our societies , not only religion .
ok and what are the pros and cons of having and not having sexual freedom

what degree of sexual freedom is acceptable

on one end of the continuum we have the taliban - at least the way they are portrayed in our press

on the other end of the continuum we have San Franciscans as many southern Baptists imagine them

is there a rational way to determine which part of the continuum is optimal
Me too , I think this punishment shouldn't be implemented by anyway in the world of today .
ok that was not too difficult was it

is this your personal view or do you think that this is Islamic view
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