Free Will Mix

[SpheresOfBalance]

...
Bullshit, again this is exactly what I mean, obviously you failed to follow that last statement of mine, which was easy as pie, so I'll ELABORATE, as usual, This message of mine, in it's totality, was me ELABORATING on the problems between us, and yet you have the audacity to say I never elaborate, so either you're playing games, trying to screw with me, or ignorant through your fear of the dictionary, and thus don't know what elaborate means. Either way we're spinning our tires because we fail, continually, to effectively communicate. And after I get done elaborating on this particular bunch of BS, I'm too frustrated and tired, because I can't type for shit, to respond to any question concerning the topic at hand. Do you finally see the problem between us. I believe it was self evident as to what my last sentence meant, but i have to break my word and elaborate yet again just to get you to see how you misunderstood, and thus caused us to waste yet more time, saying absolutely nothing, of philosophical consequence, as to "Free Will." I'm getting tired of spinning my wheels with you. I'm beginning to think that you're screwing with me because no one with your education could be this stupid.

And this is your problem with me, you ELABORATE upon everything apart from the questions you are asked. You appear to mistake me as someone who gives two tosses about your emotional and psychological states, other than where I offer you advice as to how you can change them if you wish, after all you are on a philosophy forum so thought and conversation is the order of the day. I've asked you repeatedly from the start, where you claimed that it was obvious that we have "freewill", what you meant by this and along the way you've pretty much expressed the view that things are determined by past experiences and nearly impossible to change. As such I've asked you how you reconcile this with your original thought but I get scant answer from you. Me, I'm a determinist but think the Will exists and past experience offers choice with constraints not immutable bondage. I think "freewill" an old religious problem that got exported into modern-day scientism and has been causing nonsense ever since.

I've already answered this in one of the two freewill threads, find it, I have no time for your circularity of confusion.

[Arising_uk]

I've already answered this in one of the two freewill threads, find it, I have no time for your circularity of confusion.

Care to stick the links in as you have a thousand odd posts and its a bit much to work through to find the ones you refer to.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I've already answered this in one of the two freewill threads, find it, I have no time for your circularity of confusion.

Care to stick the links in as you have a thousand odd posts and its a bit much to work through to find the ones you refer to.

For me as well. Not sure which one it was. I may find it, but as close as I can get you to it, is the page.

If you're not a female, why be so concerned with misogynists. By the way, I'm not even close to being one.

[Arising_uk]

If you're not a female, why be so concerned with misogynists. By the way, I'm not even close to being one.

Sorry but at this, as to my eyes it is an expression of the closeness you deny. So a male cannot be concerned with misogyny, that apply to racism as well? As I'm also not black.

[SpheresOfBalance]

If you're not a female, why be so concerned with misogynists. By the way, I'm not even close to being one.

Sorry but at this, as to my eyes it is an expression of the closeness you deny.
How so?
So a male cannot be concerned with misogyny,
Not at all, it's just that women are usually more concerned, and I sense that you're overly concerned.
that apply to racism as well? As I'm also not black.
It's got to do with the level at which you display.

[Arising_uk]

How so?

In that you think it only women who should be concerned with such things.

Not at all, it's just that women are usually more concerned, and I sense that you're overly concerned.

Again. What is 'overly concerned' with respect to this issue?

Also, are you not getting confused now, as I thought you thought I was a women?

It's got to do with the level at which you display.

What are you talking about?

Found those links yet?

[SpheresOfBalance]

How so?

In that you think it only women who should be concerned with such things.
You are mistaken, I never said such a thing.

Not at all, it's just that women are usually more concerned, and I sense that you're overly concerned.

Again. What is 'overly concerned' with respect to this issue?
Your constant concern with it!

Also, are you not getting confused now, as I thought you thought I was a women?

It's got to do with the level at which you display.

What are you talking about?
Your profile is not complete, as to indicating your sex, you seem to really be concerned with it, as you initially brought it up, but failed to ever correct me, of your own volition, plus others factors, makes it seem that possibly, historically, you weren't taken seriously as a women, such that you hide the fact and are overly concerned if someone suspects.

Found those links yet?

See here, you nag like some women, guys tend not to do that.

[Arising_uk]

You are mistaken, I never said such a thing.

I stand corrected, overly concerned. So what is this "overly"? How do you quantify it?

Your constant concern with it!

But its just a reflection of your concern with my gender?

Your profile is not complete, as to indicating your sex, you seem to really be concerned with it, as you initially brought it up, but failed to ever correct me, of your own volition, plus others factors, makes it seem that possibly, historically, you weren't taken seriously as a women, such that you hide the fact and are overly concerned if someone suspects.

I think if you'll check you'll find that it was you that raised my gender as an issue, something that Yanks appear to do often upon this forum. I do not fill in profiles in general as what point? Will it affect what I say? Although I it looks like it will affect how some will hear what I say.

See here, you nag like some women, guys tend not to do that.

There you go again!

You told me read your posts so as to understand what you think about 'freewill' and determinism, especially since this whole conversation started with me questioning your assertion that it was obvious that we have 'freewill' and in the face of years of discussion in philosophy that the concept was problematic. I'd have assumed you'd be the one who could find them pretty easily?

[SpheresOfBalance]

You are mistaken, I never said such a thing.

I stand corrected, overly concerned. So what is this "overly"? How do you quantify it?
How old are you? I see this as an unneeded question if you are my contemporary, as to age, as I can clearly answer this, then I believe, so should you!

Your constant concern with it!

But its just a reflection of your concern with my gender?
You're the one that initially brought up my pronoun usage, so as I'm to speak, in that initial moment you'd rather have issue, thus argue, than correct!

Your profile is not complete, as to indicating your sex, you seem to really be concerned with it, as you initially brought it up, but failed to ever correct me, of your own volition, plus others factors, makes it seem that possibly, historically, you weren't taken seriously as a women, such that you hide the fact and are overly concerned if someone suspects.

I think if you'll check you'll find that it was you that raised my gender as an issue,
Outright lie, or your fading memory.

something that Yanks
Slander, at least as per your definition, which places you so far beneath me.

appear to do often upon this forum.

I do not fill in profiles in general as what point? Will it affect what I say? Although I it looks like it will affect how some will hear what I say.
One has to wonder why? As to name and location, as a thin veil of security, understandable, but age, where's the security, only vanity need apply. Some women seem to be preoccupied with the fear of others knowing this. Unless, again you fear being written off as inconsequential due to your age; sex? It would seem that it's you that harbors these issues, so obviously you would project them, maybe their manifestation is merely a function of your fear and projection of them. Trust me, I know, getting old is a bitch!

See here, you nag like some women, guys tend not to do that.

There you go again!
No! "I" see that you are impatiently nagging. This is typically a trait of at least some of the fairer sex. My wife doesn't do it, but some do!

You told me read your posts so as to understand what you think about 'freewill' and determinism, especially since this whole conversation started with me questioning your assertion that it was obvious that we have 'freewill' and in the face of years of discussion in philosophy that the concept was problematic. I'd have assumed you'd be the one who could find them pretty easily?
Your logic is twisted, If I take you correctly, you believe that the lack of freewill has something to do with me not rapidly providing you with the previous post in question?

But seriously, after all we've been through, why do you engage me? Really? Why do you take your precious time to engage Spheres Of Balance? What is the point? We don't get along. I believe you're confused as with your presumptions, assumptions, jumping to conclusions, not weighing the words and then proceeding logically from their actual "MEANING," which requires a dictionary, which you fear due to circularity; which you believe has absolutely nothing to do with the standardization of a language, so that people can effectively communicate, or so you have said. In this case how can anyone effectively talk to you? I don't really like Bob, but he sees it too. Then you constantly demean me through the term Yank, at least in your eyes, merely because I live in America, and that you project you meaning onto my words, and then hold me accountable for them. Effectively, you merely talk to yourself, find that you don't like what you see, and hold another responsible for it. It seems as though you could be a post menopausal woman that has gone a little loopy. If so, I care for you, I just find it difficult to talk to you, in the past I have held you accountable for my frustration in being capable of effectively conversing with you, so as to actually gain some ground, and I have apologized, because that was wrong, I should either take the inordinate amount of time required, or condense my output. I have no right to make you responsible for my decisions to engage you. I could simply not do so, which would alleviate my frustration. So once again I apologize for all the instances that I've lost my cool and verbally abused you, you did not deserve it. And it doesn't matter what you think about my words here, as its my responsibility, not yours.

[Arising_uk]

How old are you? I see this as an unneeded question if you are my contemporary, as to age, as I can clearly answer this, then I believe, so should you!

So after gender its now age. Whether you see it as needed or uneeded has what relevance to my question of what being overly concerned with respect to misogyny is?

You're the one that initially brought up my pronoun usage, so as I'm to speak, in that initial moment you'd rather have issue, thus argue, than correct!

What are you babbling about now? You called me a she and have regularly assumed I'm female. I've told you I think gender has little to do with what the actual thoughts are expressing and think the reason you wish to know such things appears to be a Yank cultural need to do with being able to then dismiss or patronise the other and that I think it shows misogynistic tendencies.

Outright lie, or your fading memory.

Fact.

Slander, at least as per your definition, which places you so far beneath me.

Experience upon this forum.

That you think yourself upon a pedestal just shows the hypocrisy and nonsense you speak with respect to how you say you treat others.

One has to wonder why? As to name and location, as a thin veil of security, understandable, but age, where's the security, only vanity need apply. Some women seem to be preoccupied with the fear of others knowing this. Unless, again you fear being written off as inconsequential due to your age; sex? It would seem that it's you that harbors these issues, so obviously you would project them, maybe their manifestation is merely a function of your fear and projection of them. Trust me, I know, getting old is a bitch!

Save your psycho-babble for yourself, as you obviously need it.

No! "I" see that you are impatiently nagging. This is typically a trait of at least some of the fairer sex. My wife doesn't do it, but some do!

"The fairer sex"

I asked you a fairly extensive question and you got upon your pedestal and told me to read your words in two other threads, presumably because you think this would answer my question, but you gave no links and when I went to look I could not easily find them as you have a thousand odd posts. I think it the least you could do, if you're not going to reply to me, is to give me the links so I can read what you've said about determinism and 'freewill'. So far all you've done is burble about females and nagging, I can only assume you're having a senior moment and can't find them.

Your logic is twisted, If I take you correctly, you believe that the lack of freewill has something to do with me not rapidly providing you with the previous post in question?

My logic is fine, its your paranoia that affects your reading ability. So no, you take me incorrectly, I made no such link, I just want to read these words that you claim will answer my questions.

But seriously, after all we've been through, why do you engage me? Really? Why do you take your precious time to engage Spheres Of Balance? What is the point? We don't get along. ...

Pardon!? You are on a philosophy forum, what has 'getting along' got to do with anything? You only wish to talk to those you agree with? Me, when I hear "Its obvious we have freewill" upon a philosophy forum, think that such an assertion given the history of philosophy should be challenged. Its got bugger all to do with personality and my precious time is given because I think others reading such words my think that the term 'freewill' is unproblematic in philosophy. Might be fine in a chatroom but not here.

I believe you're confused as with your presumptions, assumptions, jumping to conclusions, not weighing the words and then proceeding logically from their actual "MEANING," which requires a dictionary, which you fear due to circularity; which you believe has absolutely nothing to do with the standardization of a language, so that people can effectively communicate, or so you have said. ...

Go back and read what I said to you about this. I have no fear of dictionaries, I just understand that 'actual meaning' did not occur with dictionaries. If it did then you'd have to hold the position that there was no meaning in English before Johnson wrote one, that there was no meaning in language before the invention of writing? I agree that standardization is useful but "meaning" does not arise from such a source but from usage and meaning is refined by conversation and discussion, something you appear loathe to do.

In this case how can anyone effectively talk to you? I don't really like Bob, but he sees it too. Then you constantly demean me through the term Yank, at least in your eyes, merely because I live in America, and that you project you meaning onto my words, and then hold me accountable for them. ...

You read what you wish. What I've clearly said about my usage of the term "Yank" is not that it means any American but that it identifies a certain type of American.

I've told you my basic presumption, "The meaning of ones words is the response they get."

You can effectively talk to me by stopping all the psycho-babble and gender assumption and answer the bloody questions I pose about your words.

Effectively, you merely talk to yourself, find that you don't like what you see, and hold another responsible for it. ...

See my presumption above.

It seems as though you could be a post menopausal woman that has gone a little loopy. If so, I care for you, I just find it difficult to talk to you, in the past I have held you accountable for my frustration in being capable of effectively conversing with you, so as to actually gain some ground, and I have apologized, because that was wrong, I should either take the inordinate amount of time required, or condense my output. I have no right to make you responsible for my decisions to engage you. I could simply not do so, which would alleviate my frustration. So once again I apologize for all the instances that I've lost my cool and verbally abused you, you did not deserve it. And it doesn't matter what you think about my words here, as its my responsibility, not yours.

The more I read of you the more I think you a big girls blouse despite the claims of martial prowess and hyper masculinity. Save your platitudes for someone who gives a fuck about them, especially when they are couched in such a patronizing manner. Personally I think apologies are pretty meaningless things, as why do things one needs to apologise for? But LMAO about your assumptions given the bollocks you say about how you treat others. Despite appearances this is a philosophy forum, so grow a pair and start answering my questions about your words for once and stop with the psycho-babble that I presume is used to protect your insecure 'ego' or at least provide those bloody links!

[SpheresOfBalance]

How old are you? I see this as an unneeded question if you are my contemporary, as to age, as I can clearly answer this, then I believe, so should you!

So after gender its now age. Whether you see it as needed or uneeded has what relevance to my question of what being overly concerned with respect to misogyny is?

You're the one that initially brought up my pronoun usage, so as I'm to speak, in that initial moment you'd rather have issue, thus argue, than correct!

What are you babbling about now? You called me a she and have regularly assumed I'm female. I've told you I think gender has little to do with what the actual thoughts are expressing and think the reason you wish to know such things appears to be a Yank cultural need to do with being able to then dismiss or patronise the other and that I think it shows misogynistic tendencies.

Outright lie, or your fading memory.

Fact.

Slander, at least as per your definition, which places you so far beneath me.

Experience upon this forum.

That you think yourself upon a pedestal just shows the hypocrisy and nonsense you speak with respect to how you say you treat others.

One has to wonder why? As to name and location, as a thin veil of security, understandable, but age, where's the security, only vanity need apply. Some women seem to be preoccupied with the fear of others knowing this. Unless, again you fear being written off as inconsequential due to your age; sex? It would seem that it's you that harbors these issues, so obviously you would project them, maybe their manifestation is merely a function of your fear and projection of them. Trust me, I know, getting old is a bitch!

Save your psycho-babble for yourself, as you obviously need it.

No! "I" see that you are impatiently nagging. This is typically a trait of at least some of the fairer sex. My wife doesn't do it, but some do!

"The fairer sex"

I asked you a fairly extensive question and you got upon your pedestal and told me to read your words in two other threads, presumably because you think this would answer my question, but you gave no links and when I went to look I could not easily find them as you have a thousand odd posts. I think it the least you could do, if you're not going to reply to me, is to give me the links so I can read what you've said about determinism and 'freewill'. So far all you've done is burble about females and nagging, I can only assume you're having a senior moment and can't find them.

Your logic is twisted, If I take you correctly, you believe that the lack of freewill has something to do with me not rapidly providing you with the previous post in question?

My logic is fine, its your paranoia that affects your reading ability. So no, you take me incorrectly, I made no such link, I just want to read these words that you claim will answer my questions.

But seriously, after all we've been through, why do you engage me? Really? Why do you take your precious time to engage Spheres Of Balance? What is the point? We don't get along. ...

Pardon!? You are on a philosophy forum, what has 'getting along' got to do with anything? You only wish to talk to those you agree with? Me, when I hear "Its obvious we have freewill" upon a philosophy forum, think that such an assertion given the history of philosophy should be challenged. Its got bugger all to do with personality and my precious time is given because I think others reading such words my think that the term 'freewill' is unproblematic in philosophy. Might be fine in a chatroom but not here.

I believe you're confused as with your presumptions, assumptions, jumping to conclusions, not weighing the words and then proceeding logically from their actual "MEANING," which requires a dictionary, which you fear due to circularity; which you believe has absolutely nothing to do with the standardization of a language, so that people can effectively communicate, or so you have said. ...

Go back and read what I said to you about this. I have no fear of dictionaries, I just understand that 'actual meaning' did not occur with dictionaries. If it did then you'd have to hold the position that there was no meaning in English before Johnson wrote one, that there was no meaning in language before the invention of writing? I agree that standardization is useful but "meaning" does not arise from such a source but from usage and meaning is refined by conversation and discussion, something you appear loathe to do.

In this case how can anyone effectively talk to you? I don't really like Bob, but he sees it too. Then you constantly demean me through the term Yank, at least in your eyes, merely because I live in America, and that you project you meaning onto my words, and then hold me accountable for them. ...

You read what you wish. What I've clearly said about my usage of the term "Yank" is not that it means any American but that it identifies a certain type of American.

I've told you my basic presumption, "The meaning of ones words is the response they get."

You can effectively talk to me by stopping all the psycho-babble and gender assumption and answer the bloody questions I pose about your words.

Effectively, you merely talk to yourself, find that you don't like what you see, and hold another responsible for it. ...

See my presumption above.

It seems as though you could be a post menopausal woman that has gone a little loopy. If so, I care for you, I just find it difficult to talk to you, in the past I have held you accountable for my frustration in being capable of effectively conversing with you, so as to actually gain some ground, and I have apologized, because that was wrong, I should either take the inordinate amount of time required, or condense my output. I have no right to make you responsible for my decisions to engage you. I could simply not do so, which would alleviate my frustration. So once again I apologize for all the instances that I've lost my cool and verbally abused you, you did not deserve it. And it doesn't matter what you think about my words here, as its my responsibility, not yours.

The more I read of you the more I think you a big girls blouse despite the claims of martial prowess and hyper masculinity. Save your platitudes for someone who gives a fuck about them, especially when they are couched in such a patronizing manner. Personally I think apologies are pretty meaningless things, as why do things one needs to apologise for? But LMAO about your assumptions given the bollocks you say about how you treat others. Despite appearances this is a philosophy forum, so grow a pair and start answering my questions about your words for once and stop with the psycho-babble that I presume is used to protect your insecure 'ego' or at least provide those bloody links!

I don't like your attitude, you're an egomaniac, selfish to the bone. You're a bigot, as well, and I hate bigots. You'll always be like that of an immature ill-mannered little girl, to me. You don't deserve my time, because of it. F.O.A.D. Did you like that? That's all you'll ever get from me, until you grow up and mind your manners!

[Notvacka]

You'll always be like that of an immature ill-mannered little girl...

Watching this pissing contest from the sidelines, I'd like to point out that there is nothing girlish about Arising here. Picking a fight like this and keeping on is very boyish. Arising likes to pick a fight now and then, and as far as I can tell, he only picks fights that he's sure to win.

The moment you lose sight of the real argument and get personal, you've lost. Your arguments have run out, and you attack the other person rather than his arguments. I usually try to steer the discussion back on track when this happens, and leave if the other person keeps it up. But Arising smells blood.

Arising's is a rather defensive player. His style is mainly asking pertinent questions and adding humorous comments. If he gets a reasonable answer to a question, he won't go on about it. But you are being unreasoable and he'll keep on until you see it or give in from sheer exhaustion.

[SpheresOfBalance]

You'll always be like that of an immature ill-mannered little girl...

Watching this pissing contest from the sidelines, I'd like to point out that there is nothing girlish about Arising here. Picking a fight like this and keeping on is very boyish. Arising likes to pick a fight now and then, and as far as I can tell, he only picks fights that he's sure to win.

The moment you lose sight of the real argument and get personal, you've lost. Your arguments have run out, and you attack the other person rather than his arguments. I usually try to steer the discussion back on track when this happens, and leave if the other person keeps it up. But Arising smells blood.

Arising's is a rather defensive player. His style is mainly asking pertinent questions and adding humorous comments. If he gets a reasonable answer to a question, he won't go on about it. But you are being unreasoable and he'll keep on until you see it or give in from sheer exhaustion.

First, I have to wonder why you feel inclined to interject as you have, I can only come up with one probability, and it doesn't impress me, as a matter of fact it's kind of small minded. Care to explain?

Second, I seriously doubt you have been following this as you state, such that you can effectively make a fair assessment, because it's been going on now since sometime around Nov 2011 and has spanned 'several' threads. Your points above seem to be misplaced, as if you've plucked them from thin air. So what were you saying?

If you feel the need to suck on someones teat, that's your business, but don't fool yourself into believing that there's necessarily any substance of any significance to it, of course cowards shall always find safety in numbers, have at it!

And one more thing, I don't see this as a game, and feel sorry for those that do.

Oh and P.S. Arising_uk is definitely a she, I now have definite proof, I even know her name, shows how much you know.

[Notvacka]

First, I have to wonder why you feel inclined to interject as you have, I can only come up with one probability, and it doesn't impress me, as a matter of fact it's kind of small minded. Care to explain?

There you go again. If I interject, it has to be about me, personally, right?

Second, I seriously doubt you have been following this as you state, such that you can effectively make a fair assessment, because it's been going on now since sometime around Nov 2011 and has spanned 'several' threads. Your points above seem to be misplaced, as if you've plucked them from thin air. So what were you saying?

I haven't read all of your posts, no. I just checked in on this Free Will Mix topic to see if there was something about free will added lately, and I read a few pages of your sorry exchange and kind of took pity, since I've seen it all before. But of course I should leave you two to it.

If you feel the need to suck on someones teat, that's your business, but don't fool yourself into believing that there's necessarily any substance of any significance to it, of course cowards shall always find safety in numbers, have at it!

I'm not jumpin in on Arising's side here. I'm exposing him to you. He needs no help.

And one more thing, I don't see this as a game, and feel sorry for those that do.

Neither do I. That's why I usually don't take part once a discussion has turned into one. If you get back to discussing philosophy, I might join in. This was just me trying to act referee in order to save you from further humiliation.

Oh and P.S. That he is a she, in one way or another.

Fine. Get pummeled by a girl then, if that makes you feel better. But now I'm adding insult to injury, which, honestly, wasn't my intention. What you have here is not a debate, it's a game. And you are losing.

[SpheresOfBalance]

You know Arising, I really don't know why you now fear being known as a woman, honestly. I absolutely love women, and I do take them seriously, and they are different than men. You know there is one thing I can't bear, and that's to see a woman cry. My heart always goes out to them. Now that I know for sure that you are a female you never have to worry about me wanting to sportingly fight you in a ring, but I may want to wrestle with you.

But seriously, I'm so excited now, because I just got proof today, but I sensed it early on, I'm fucking good!!!! Really, my powers of sensing are pretty good. A lot of dudes think you're a dude, but I swam against the stream, because I sensed something that said female, and I was right. It's really no big deal except for the reassurance of my sensing abilities.

And I seriously never meant to demean you, really, you just seem to be worried that someone may, and are overly defensive about it, which was one of the subtle clues. Are you a MS. Did you burn your bra back in the 60's? I really don't blame you since we live in a patriarchal society. And to be totally honest with you, I've always believed that a matriarchal society would be much better for everyone.