Black People and Crime

[SpheresOfBalance]

The Drudge report has got a story. St. Patricks Day, a tourist in Baltimore was punched in the face. The onlookers laughed and the people around him stripped him of his possessions---and took off his clothes.

The people involved: The Victim was an European and the perps were African-Americans.

The story is here: Crowd laughs as man is beaten

Now, we have the Trayvon Martin case where a black man was killed by an Hispanic. The media have portrayed this case as a hate crime and a racist attack upon a black person.

Trayvon Martin was a 6' tall athletic guy who was walking in a place he shouldn't have been--a gated community. The school he attended, knew that he committed burglaries. On the Internet, he shows his 'hood' or 'gangsta' behavior.

Trayvon Martin assaulted George Zimmerman, an Hispanic, and had him on the ground pummeling him which is normal African practice of violence. They keep on beating anybody until their victims are senseless. Zimmerman pulls out a gun and shoots.

Everybody blows up and the President Marxist of Amerika says that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin.

The word is stay out of way of blacks because they will out of the blue assault you and if you don't have a gun, you will end up like that tourist in Baltimore, beaten and stripped while they laugh at you.

Amerika is the land of barbarians. There is no more civilization in this country.

I'm 54 and was born and live in America USA, I'm white, white as snow, and my sir name is that of British descent. During my childhood I was bullied by white and black alike. Of course because of the stature that I achieved in adulthood, no one has bullied me, that's not to say that they wouldn't if they had the 'weapon' advantage, which, let's face it, is born of the epitome of cowardice, i.e., the Mutually Assured Destruction lesson, for those of intellect only!

People of color, Blacks if you will, historically have been persecuted, in America and elsewhere. The superficial difference of color, as a reason to harm another is born of the epitome of ignorance, as it's purely a function of environment, with a plethora of variables to consider, not just the relative inclination of our solar orbit, geology also comes into play, along with particular food sources and weather patterns, thus it's easily discernible as the shallow uneducated, superficial bias that it is, I call those that fall victim to this thoughtless reaction to visual stimulus, as meatheads, and rightfully so.

Here's a LINK for a story, that was in the New York Times, about a bunch of Russian (white) Neo-Nazi's that beheaded two men of color, and here is a link (see warning) for the video of them doing so. WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS A URL THAT LINKS TO A GRAPHIC VIDEO OF INNOCENT PEOPLE BEING MURDERED BY NEO-NAZI'S IN COLD BLOOD, VIA DECAPITATION DUE TO THEIR EVIL IGNORANT PSYCHOSIS. hxxp://robert-lindsay.blogspot.com/2007/08/russian-neo-nazi-beheading-video.html?zx=7930f063379190a3 :WARNING(you must copy and paste the url into your browser address bar, exchanging "http" for "hxxp", if you require 'visual' proof of the story.) No, I never watched it to completion, I quit just prior to the execution, I have no need to fill my eyes with the truth of mans twisted nature, for fear that I might want to be that of a vigilante, that searched out and tortured killers of innocence. I would never want to become them from the rage born of the undeniable 'visual' truth of some men's psychotic injustice. <--Can you sense the psychology? PTSD!

Here is a related story that was in TheGuardian/TheObserver, from the UK.

Now I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, they don't, but is there any wonder why, in a time when they finally feel a relative freedom and sense of equality, in the face of their poverty, that they run-a-muck, like their oppressors have done for centuries? We're talking psychology here people, not color!

Now what was it, that you, that see a color issue, were saying?
And to you that do, I wish you'd been blind from birth, for taking such a wonderful gift, and turning it into shit!
Human intelligence sometimes seems to be an oxymoron!

[artisticsolution]

As opposed to when? When they laughed and whooped whilst slaughtering the Red Indian women and children? When they enslaved the African and raped their women at will? When they used to laugh when lynching blacks and hanging them from trees? When was this 'civilization' you chat about?

Good point Arising! So then we can see clearly that it's not only poverty that causes people to turn to crime. Also, how come the numbers of crimes committed are disproportionally committed by men? What about women of poverty? If what Chaz and sob thinks is true...then shouldn't we see all people of poverty committing crimes?

The thing I have against using poverty as an excuse for crime is that it is mere opinion. It's simply absurd to think that human beings when pushed to the limit will turn to crime...not only crime but horror against man. I know it is a popularly held "romantic" belief of some people that they must "stand against the basic evil of human nature" but I think this viewpoint is half baked of pure imagination. It's what Hollywood and Christianity both thrive on...funny how atheists sometimes get sick into the same faulty logic. Quite simply put...there is no reason to think that all people when put in poverty will resort to crime. There are plenty of people in poverty who do not harm other people. If it were the case that all people in poverty turn to crime then there would not be any poverty because they all would be in jail being taken care of by the state. I am using this example to show you the absurdity of what you say.

Also, as Arising points out...other people, who are not in poverty, can commit atrocious crimes against humanity as well. I am asking you to suppose that it is something other than mere "poverty turns people into barbarians." I am asking you to suppose it is a physical make up of their design. I am asking you to suppose it could be a disease or a defect of some kind that could possibly someday be cured.

We know that there are certain diseases that are only found in certain races...could it be that this genetic problem will be a thing of the past someday? Could it be that we find out what gene or abnormality causes some people to commit acts of horror against their fellow man and learn how to cure it...or at least lessen it's effects?

If we could cure a disease, for example, by eliminating the gene that held it, why would we not choose to do that?

[chaz wyman]

The Drudge report has got a story. St. Patricks Day, a tourist in Baltimore was punched in the face. The onlookers laughed and the people around him stripped him of his possessions---and took off his clothes.

The people involved: The Victim was an European and the perps were African-Americans.

The story is here: Crowd laughs as man is beaten

Now, we have the Trayvon Martin case where a black man was killed by an Hispanic. The media have portrayed this case as a hate crime and a racist attack upon a black person.

Trayvon Martin was a 6' tall athletic guy who was walking in a place he shouldn't have been--a gated community. The school he attended, knew that he committed burglaries. On the Internet, he shows his 'hood' or 'gangsta' behavior.

Trayvon Martin assaulted George Zimmerman, an Hispanic, and had him on the ground pummeling him which is normal African practice of violence. They keep on beating anybody until their victims are senseless. Zimmerman pulls out a gun and shoots.

Everybody blows up and the President Marxist of Amerika says that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin.

The word is stay out of way of blacks because they will out of the blue assault you and if you don't have a gun, you will end up like that tourist in Baltimore, beaten and stripped while they laugh at you.

Amerika is the land of barbarians. There is no more civilization in this country.

I'm 54 and was born and live in America USA, I'm white, white as snow, and my sir name is that of British descent. During my childhood I was bullied by white and black alike. Of course because of the stature that I achieved in adulthood, no one has bullied me, that's not to say that they wouldn't if they had the 'weapon' advantage, which, let's face it, is born of the epitome of cowardice, i.e., the Mutually Assured Destruction lesson, for those of intellect only!

People of color, Blacks if you will, historically have been persecuted, in America and elsewhere. The superficial difference of color, as a reason to harm another is born of the epitome of ignorance, as it's purely a function of environment, with a plethora of variables to consider, not just the relative inclination of our solar orbit, geology also comes into play, along with particular food sources and weather patterns, thus it's easily discernible as the shallow uneducated, superficial bias that it is, I call those that fall victim to this thoughtless reaction to visual stimulus, as meatheads, and rightfully so.

Here's a LINK for a story, that was in the New York Times, about a bunch of Russian (white) Neo-Nazi's that beheaded two men of color, and here is a link (see warning) for the video of them doing so. WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS A URL THAT LINKS TO A GRAPHIC VIDEO OF INNOCENT PEOPLE BEING MURDERED BY NEO-NAZI'S IN COLD BLOOD, VIA DECAPITATION DUE TO THEIR EVIL IGNORANT PSYCHOSIS. hxxp://robert-lindsay.blogspot.com/2007/08/russian-neo-nazi-beheading-video.html?zx=7930f063379190a3 :WARNING(you must copy and paste the url into your browser address bar, exchanging "http" for "hxxp", if you require 'visual' proof of the story.) No, I never watched it to completion, I quit just prior to the execution, I have no need to fill my eyes with the truth of mans twisted nature, for fear that I might want to be that of a vigilante, that searched out and tortured killers of innocence. I would never want to become them from the rage born of the undeniable 'visual' truth of some men's psychotic injustice. <--Can you sense the psychology? PTSD!

Here is a related story that was in TheGuardian/TheObserver, from the UK.

Now I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, they don't, but is there any wonder why, in a time when they finally feel a relative freedom and sense of equality, in the face of their poverty, that they run-a-muck, like their oppressors have done for centuries? We're talking psychology here people, not color!

Now what was it, that you, that see a color issue, were saying?
And to you that do, I wish you'd been blind from birth, for taking such a wonderful gift, and turning it into shit!
Human intelligence sometimes seems to be an oxymoron!

The tendency to xenophobia is as natural as the tendency to share and co-operate with your fellow humans.
You have only to look at the terraces of any ball-game which involve the blues and the reds in mock battle on the sporting field.
The urge to cheer on you side is the same urge that points to a focus on the colour of skin or different nationality.
This is not ignorance; it is knowledge of a place in the world and knowledge of your relationship with others; those that are in and those that are out.
All of which is completely arbitrary; as arbitrary as lines on a map decided by war.
The solution is education. We simply have to teach each other that all are equal under the law. Sadly this is in contradiction with the concept of nationalism and patriotism.
For it is the same natural propensity in man that makes one a patriot and other a racist.

[artisticsolution]

The tendency to xenophobia is as natural as the tendency to share and co-operate with your fellow humans.
You have only to look at the terraces of any ball-game which involve the blues and the reds in mock battle on the sporting field.
The urge to cheer on you side is the same urge that points to a focus on the colour of skin or different nationality.
This is not ignorance; it is knowledge of a place in the world and knowledge of your relationship with others; those that are in and those that are out.
All of which is completely arbitrary; as arbitrary as lines on a map decided by war.
The solution is education. We simply have to teach each other that all are equal under the law. Sadly this is in contradiction with the concept of nationalism and patriotism.
For it is the same natural propensity in man that makes one a patriot and other a racist.

Yes to all of this...but you are missing the point. It is natural for man to take sides...but he can do that without harming another. What you seem to be saying is that blacks murder because they are forced to live in poverty which is "understandable" and all whites are to blame for their actions. Like whites had/have it coming. Conversely, you also seem to be saying that racism is worse than murder or that racists will always murder the ones they hate.

This seems to me off balance.

Or maybe we are on the same page and you are just saying? It's just seems this is a complete 180 from your past posts in this thread which makes me think you are saying one thing here but I might be misunderstanding you.

[SpheresOfBalance]

The tendency to xenophobia is as natural as the tendency to share and co-operate with your fellow humans.
You have only to look at the terraces of any ball-game which involve the blues and the reds in mock battle on the sporting field.
The urge to cheer on you side is the same urge that points to a focus on the colour of skin or different nationality.
This is not ignorance; it is knowledge of a place in the world and knowledge of your relationship with others; those that are in and those that are out.
All of which is completely arbitrary; as arbitrary as lines on a map decided by war.
The solution is education. We simply have to teach each other that all are equal under the law. Sadly this is in contradiction with the concept of nationalism and patriotism.
For it is the same natural propensity in man that makes one a patriot and other a racist.

Yes to all of this...but you are missing the point. It is natural for man to take sides...but he can do that without harming another.
What do you think of the wars that have provided the luxuries you afford?

What you seem to be saying is that blacks murder because they are forced to live in poverty which is "understandable" and all whites are to blame for their actions.
With their legacy , yes it's understandable, but not condoned!

Like whites had/have it coming.
How does this necessarily follow? I don't see it at all. It's not about retaliation/retribution/revenge. It's about understanding the causal, learning from it, so as to then negate it, with some plan of action.

Conversely, you also seem to be saying that racism is worse than murder or that racists will always murder the ones they hate.
Racism is synonymous with murder, so to speak, in that there have been countless murders of the victims of racism.


This seems to me off balance.
Because you have yet to see that this argument is not about blame, but rather solution.


Or maybe we are on the same page and you are just saying? It's just seems this is a complete 180 from your past posts in this thread which makes me think you are saying one thing here but I might be misunderstanding you.

[SpheresOfBalance]

<snip>

As an American, I grew up politically correct. I was taught that way. Then, I lived in Europe for three and half years travelling from place to place working on farms and hostels. Living in Europe disabused me from political correctness. If one is honest and has eyes to see, there are racial differences.
I see only the human race, you can divide anything with arbitrary divisions, but it doesn't necessarily say anything. I see that what you are referring to is culture. As a matter of fact, both in terms of creationism and in evolutionism it is believed that all humans started from one central location.

Europe is proof of that. I've also been around the world to Asia and the Middle East. Don't give me that cock and bull story of "there is no such thing as race".
Human Race, and culture!

Only stupid dumb Americans that have never traveled outside their own state much less their own home city and have never traveled abroad and lived for awhile in another country can say stupid stuff like that.
I've lived in: Japan, Okinawa, Korea, Singapore, Australia, Diego Garcia (BIOT), Kenya, Somalia, Philippines, Thailand, Oman, USA (over half the states including Alaska and Hawaii.) There is only the human race but many cultures (the differences are environmental). At least that's the way I see it.

[chaz wyman]

The tendency to xenophobia is as natural as the tendency to share and co-operate with your fellow humans.
You have only to look at the terraces of any ball-game which involve the blues and the reds in mock battle on the sporting field.
The urge to cheer on you side is the same urge that points to a focus on the colour of skin or different nationality.
This is not ignorance; it is knowledge of a place in the world and knowledge of your relationship with others; those that are in and those that are out.
All of which is completely arbitrary; as arbitrary as lines on a map decided by war.
The solution is education. We simply have to teach each other that all are equal under the law. Sadly this is in contradiction with the concept of nationalism and patriotism.
For it is the same natural propensity in man that makes one a patriot and other a racist.

Yes to all of this...but you are missing the point. It is natural for man to take sides...but he can do that without harming another. What you seem to be saying is that blacks murder because they are forced to live in poverty which is "understandable" and all whites are to blame for their actions. Like whites had/have it coming. Conversely, you also seem to be saying that racism is worse than murder or that racists will always murder the ones they hate.

Of course, I am saying none of this. I can't see why you would want to argue with a different version of what I said. Maybe that makes it easier for you, and gives you a cover for the shame of your own patriotism.


This seems to me off balance.

There are two reasons for this. 1) Is that you have completely misrepresented what I have said. and 2) a strawman is usually designed as a technique to avoid dealing with the more moderate truth that is uncomfortable that you are now confronted with.



Or maybe we are on the same page and you are just saying? It's just seems this is a complete 180 from your past posts in this thread which makes me think you are saying one thing here but I might be misunderstanding you.

If you read what I say carefully then you will see that it is totally consistent with my previous view.
I am simply saying that the tendency for kids to join up with their local neighbourhood gansta gang is exactly the same tendency that all humans have for joining the flock - be that a church group, or a nation. Groups always end up promoting violence for the protection of the group. Be that a drive-by, or napalm of thousands of innocent civilians.
The trick is to see that and include the whole of humanity in your group.

Would you have condoned the slaughter of Vietnamese villages and the poisoning of millions of hectares of forest? Would you even consider it a crime? How is it better or worse than the last drive-by assassination of a gang member?

PS. Since the last time you responded to my post you called me a racist - what do you mean this is " It's just seems this is a complete 180 from your past posts" please make up your mind!
BTW - I stopped reading after you called me a racist, so I do not know what else you may have said in that posting.

[artisticsolution]

SOB:What do you think of the wars that have provided the luxuries you afford?

AS: You know absolutely nothing about me. As far as you know we are completely equal as obviously all we know about each other is we both have internet access. I could ask you the same question but I wouldn't because it is irrelevant.

SOB:With their legacy , yes it's understandable, but not condoned!

AS: Okay...so then what's the point? Under your logic, would it also be "understandable" for Jews to murder germans?


SOB:Because you have yet to see that this argument is not about blame, but rather solution.

AS: I have been asking from the beginning of this thread for your "solution". But you don't seem to want to say what it is.
Look...it seem to me that I am the only one who is brave enough to stand up and say, I see a difference. Does it mean I think people are "unequal"? No. All people are equal in their humanity. But that doesn't mean I can't see a difference in skin color. I think a person would have to be stupid to say there are no physical differences between people. I think a person would have to be stupid to say...men and women are exactly alike. I mean come on...I can get ovarian cancer...can a man?

We know there are diseases that strike certain races. SO then are people in the medical profession racists because they say, " Hey look...Some Jews have this disease and some whites are more prone to this...etc. I am just calling a spade a spade and asking the question...that since we don't know everything about genetics...or the human mind...is it possible there could be a link in aggressive behavior. Look up the most dangerous countries to live in....I will give you a hint...it's not Norway or Sweden....those are the facts so don't kill the messenger. If you and Chaz want to live with 70's mentality then go ahead. Been there...done that...and it was useful to right a horrible injustice. However, now that I am older...and notice a difference in aggression in male vs. female....it makes me wonder if there are certain genetic factors that can also play a role. That does not mean that I would ever want to take anyones equality away or that I think I am better. And to me that is the definition of racism.

I called Chaz a racist because he wants to mold black people (the one who speaks the way he mentioned not liking)after himself. He does not want to mold himself after them. He thinks he is better than some. But I think that is backwards. I think the same of people like Rick Santorium who thinks anyone with a higher education is an "elitist." It's the same, "holier than thou bullshit." Educated people could teach rick a few things and the people that Chaz doesn't like the way they speak could teach him a few things. Who is anyone to look down on others?

Look...I know mine is an unpopular opinion. BUt it will be the only logical conclusion one can have in the future...it's just that people don't understand it yet. But they will....cause I am making sense...and when someone comes along who is better at communication than I...and has the guts to say it so that everyone can understand....there is no denying that it is the only way we can live and let live and enjoy each other's differences and unite on a common ground of trying to better all of humanity...and not just what we want in our self centered delusions of grandeur.

Where is f'n Kierkegaard when you need him! Men!

[artisticsolution]

BTW - I stopped reading after you called me a racist, so I do not know what else you may have said in that posting.

Frankly it doesn't bother me if you read none of my posts.

[chaz wyman]

SOB:What do you think of the wars that have provided the luxuries you afford?

AS: You know absolutely nothing about me. As far as you know we are completely equal as obviously all we know about each other is we both have internet access. I could ask you the same question but I wouldn't because it is irrelevant.

SOB:With their legacy , yes it's understandable, but not condoned!

AS: Okay...so then what's the point? Under your logic, would it also be "understandable" for Jews to murder germans?


SOB:Because you have yet to see that this argument is not about blame, but rather solution.

AS: I have been asking from the beginning of this thread for your "solution". But you don't seem to want to say what it is.
Look...it seem to me that I am the only one who is brave enough to stand up and say, I see a difference. Does it mean I think people are "unequal"? No. All people are equal in their humanity. But that doesn't mean I can't see a difference in skin color. I think a person would have to be stupid to say there are no physical differences between people. I think a person would have to be stupid to say...men and women are exactly alike. I mean come on...I can get ovarian cancer...can a man?

We know there are diseases that strike certain races. SO then are people in the medical profession racists because they say, " Hey look...Some Jews have this disease and some whites are more prone to this...etc. I am just calling a spade a spade and asking the question...that since we don't know everything about genetics...or the human mind...is it possible there could be a link in aggressive behavior. Look up the most dangerous countries to live in....I will give you a hint...it's not Norway or Sweden....those are the facts so don't kill the messenger. If you and Chaz want to live with 70's mentality then go ahead.

Where on earth is this woman dreaming up this shit?

Been there...done that...and it was useful to right a horrible injustice. However, now that I am older...and notice a difference in aggression in male vs. female....it makes me wonder if there are certain genetic factors that can also play a role. That does not mean that I would ever want to take anyones equality away or that I think I am better. And to me that is the definition of racism.

I called Chaz a racist because he wants to mold black people (the one who speaks the way he mentioned not liking)after himself.

Bullshit.

He does not want to mold himself after them. He thinks he is better than some. But I think that is backwards.
Utter Bullshit
I think the same of people like Rick Santorium who thinks anyone with a higher education is an "elitist." It's the same, "holier than thou bullshit." Educated people could teach rick a few things and the people that Chaz doesn't like the way they speak could teach him a few things. Who is anyone to look down on others?
Complete Bullshit,

Look...I know mine is an unpopular opinion.
That's only because you are wrong.
BUt it will be the only logical conclusion one can have in the future...it's just that people don't understand it yet. But they will....cause I am making sense...and when someone comes along who is better at communication than I...and has the guts to say it so that everyone can understand....there is no denying that it is the only way we can live and let live and enjoy each other's differences and unite on a common ground of trying to better all of humanity...and not just what we want in our self centered delusions of grandeur.

Where is f'n Kierkegaard when you need him! Men!

[SpheresOfBalance]

SOB:What do you think of the wars that have provided the luxuries you afford?

AS: You know absolutely nothing about me. As far as you know we are completely equal as obviously all we know about each other is we both have internet access. I could ask you the same question but I wouldn't because it is irrelevant.

SOB: Not true, as you speak I learn of you as you present yourself, this is not to say it's an accurate view, as nuance is sometimes lost in translation.
--------------
SOB:With their legacy , yes it's understandable, but not condoned!

AS: Okay...so then what's the point? Under your logic, would it also be "understandable" for Jews to murder germans?

SOB: Yes! "understandable" as to why. Which is what we're talking about, "the why of it." You would have the 'why' as that of some physical defect, some innate genetic flaw. I, on the other hand, see it as a psychological anomaly born of centuries of persecution that's still not completely over, that it, more than likely, is. I see it as an unfortunate part of the transition that humans are currently experiencing, in the true understanding of what equality really means in practice. Understanding the problem is half the battle, not understanding the problem perpetuates it.
-------------
SOB:Because you have yet to see that this argument is not about blame, but rather solution.

AS: I have been asking from the beginning of this thread for your "solution". But you don't seem to want to say what it is.

SOB: Listen, I wish I had all the answers, I'm much like you, in that I want our problems solved, but I'm just one man and you're just one woman, singly neither of us can provide much solution except through our understanding, as we understand within, we project it outwards, within this outward projection, found within the multitudes, things start to change. Understanding the dynamics of any situation, as they truly are, sets change into motion. So I guess in essence this is my solution. Let's 'truly' embrace equality in it's totality through 'truthful' understanding thus we shall find ourselves in a world, that for the most part, is free and safe, without fear, for all, so that we can 'truly' love one another, and thus 'truly' feel loved by everyone, of course there shall always be those few anomalies, of 'truly' physically/chemically damaged people that require therapy.

AS follows:

Look...it seem to me that I am the only one who is brave enough to stand up and say, I see a difference. Does it mean I think people are "unequal"? No. All people are equal in their humanity. But that doesn't mean I can't see a difference in skin color. I think a person would have to be stupid to say there are no physical differences between people. I think a person would have to be stupid to say...men and women are exactly alike. I mean come on...I can get ovarian cancer...can a man?

We know there are diseases that strike certain races. SO then are people in the medical profession racists because they say, " Hey look...Some Jews have this disease and some whites are more prone to this...etc. I am just calling a spade a spade and asking the question...that since we don't know everything about genetics...or the human mind...is it possible there could be a link in aggressive behavior. Look up the most dangerous countries to live in....I will give you a hint...it's not Norway or Sweden....those are the facts so don't kill the messenger. If you and Chaz want to live with 70's mentality then go ahead. Been there...done that...and it was useful to right a horrible injustice. However, now that I am older...and notice a difference in aggression in male vs. female....it makes me wonder if there are certain genetic factors that can also play a role. That does not mean that I would ever want to take anyones equality away or that I think I am better. And to me that is the definition of racism.

I called Chaz a racist because he wants to mold black people (the one who speaks the way he mentioned not liking)after himself. He does not want to mold himself after them. He thinks he is better than some. But I think that is backwards. I think the same of people like Rick Santorium who thinks anyone with a higher education is an "elitist." It's the same, "holier than thou bullshit." Educated people could teach rick a few things and the people that Chaz doesn't like the way they speak could teach him a few things. Who is anyone to look down on others?

Look...I know mine is an unpopular opinion. BUt it will be the only logical conclusion one can have in the future...it's just that people don't understand it yet. But they will....cause I am making sense...and when someone comes along who is better at communication than I...and has the guts to say it so that everyone can understand....there is no denying that it is the only way we can live and let live and enjoy each other's differences and unite on a common ground of trying to better all of humanity...and not just what we want in our self centered delusions of grandeur.

Where is f'n Kierkegaard when you need him! Men!

SOB: In summation: Keep in mind that when speaking of equality, for one to group another in a group, siting an unrepairable flaw as the reason, only serves in keeping the groups separate, and thus ensuring inequality.

[artisticsolution]

That's only because you are wrong.[/color]

Prove it.

[artisticsolution]

SOB: Yes! "understandable" as to why. Which is what we're talking about, "the why of it." You would have the 'why' as that of some physical defect, some innate genetic flaw. I, on the other hand, see it as a psychological anomaly born of centuries of persecution that's still not completely over, that it, more than likely, is.

AS:I don't think we have to say I am wrong or you are wrong here. I think it could be a combination of things...and that is my point. We can't know until science knows. Certainly we can see a difference. As an artist, I would use different values if I was doing a portrait of a black person vs. a white person. Those are just facts. It is also factual that some people are racist. And yes...it is probably because of some "psychological anomaly" but we can not know that for sure. We can only guess at this point. So to say I am wrong, you have no idea...because science has no idea. Because no one dare mention doing a study of such things....yet.

SOB: I see it as an unfortunate part of the transition that humans are currently experiencing, in the true understanding of what equality really means in practice. Understanding the problem is half the battle, not understanding the problem perpetuates it.

AS: Yes, but I for one will speak out against racism....and violence in all it's forms. I will not turn to the white man and go "tsk tsk" and then turn to the black man and go, "well, it's understandable that you murdered the racist" and/or visa versa.
No one gets a carte blanch from me. Harm another and you are wrong...no matter what your circumstances are.

SOB: Listen, I wish I had all the answers, I'm much like you, in that I want our problems solved, but I'm just one man and you're just one woman, singly neither of us can provide much solution except through our understanding, as we understand within, we project it outwards, within this outward projection, found within the multitudes, things start to change.

AS:Yes, I do want the problem to be solved. But there is no way of solving anything if science can't ask the "tough" question. And they can't ask those questions if they live in fear of being called a racist if they merely even mention the facts. Like Larry Summers example...they would be in fear of losing their lively hood. That is why calling someone a racist is so severe...just look at how Chaz came unglued when I used his own tactics on him...and called him a racist like he called me. He went ballistic. It is not a nice thing to say about anyone and should only be used when it is factually true...and not just flung around as a catch all in order to silence people.

[SpheresOfBalance]

SOB: Yes! "understandable" as to why. Which is what we're talking about, "the why of it." You would have the 'why' as that of some physical defect, some innate genetic flaw. I, on the other hand, see it as a psychological anomaly born of centuries of persecution that's still not completely over, that it, more than likely, is.

AS:I don't think we have to say I am wrong or you are wrong here. I think it could be a combination of things...and that is my point. We can't know until science knows. Certainly we can see a difference. As an artist, I would use different values if I was doing a portrait of a black person vs. a white person.

SOB:What do you mean by values?

Those are just facts. It is also factual that some people are racist. And yes...it is probably because of some "psychological anomaly" but we can not know that for sure. We can only guess at this point. So to say I am wrong, you have no idea...because science has no idea. Because no one dare mention doing a study of such things....yet.

SOB: I just think it's funny that you'd rather ignore their centuries of persecution and find it easier to believe that it's some physical defect when in fact we all come from the same singular origin.
--------------------
SOB: I see it as an unfortunate part of the transition that humans are currently experiencing, in the true understanding of what equality really means in practice. Understanding the problem is half the battle, not understanding the problem perpetuates it.

AS: Yes, but I for one will speak out against racism....and violence in all it's forms. I will not turn to the white man and go "tsk tsk" and then turn to the black man and go, "well, it's understandable that you murdered the racist" and/or visa versa.
No one gets a carte blanch from me. Harm another and you are wrong...no matter what your circumstances are.

SOB: You seem confused, there is a big difference between understanding the origins of something and condoning it.
-----------------
SOB: Listen, I wish I had all the answers, I'm much like you, in that I want our problems solved, but I'm just one man and you're just one woman, singly neither of us can provide much solution except through our understanding, as we understand within, we project it outwards, within this outward projection, found within the multitudes, things start to change.

AS:Yes, I do want the problem to be solved. But there is no way of solving anything if science can't ask the "tough" question. And they can't ask those questions if they live in fear of being called a racist if they merely even mention the facts. Like Larry Summers example...they would be in fear of losing their lively hood. That is why calling someone a racist is so severe...just look at how Chaz came unglued when I used his own tactics on him...and called him a racist like he called me. He went ballistic. It is not a nice thing to say about anyone and should only be used when it is factually true...and not just flung around as a catch all in order to silence people.

SOB: It sounds to me that you like blaming them, or why else would you say that you'll wait for science to prove something, which may take centuries? That way you can keep on believing as you do, because it appeases you. You could give them the benefit of doubt that I'm sure you'd appreciate if the tables were turned.

Some people are not the solution and shall always remain part of the problem, I guess.

[chaz wyman]

That's only because you are wrong.[/color]

Prove it.

Obviously if you do not take me at my word you will not be convinced of anything I say. If you want to pretend I am a racist, then there is nothing I am going to tell you to change your mind if you pretend not to believe me.
And if you don't care if I read your posts then there is hardly any point responding to you in the first place, silly girl.