Philosophy Now Forum

wtf? Your link must be broken because I get up a page with a picture of Bin Laden in 1993, a headline about an anti-communist hero (bin laden probably), but no additional text or article, and no mentioning of Oceania or Eurasia?

Please tell me what this is about?

i hope you are joking

if not

this is a 1984 reference

the full quote is

"At this moment, for example, in 1984 (if it was 1984), Oceania was at war with Eurasia and in alliance with Eastasia. In no public or private utterance was it ever admitted that the three powers had at any time been grouped along different lines. Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge, which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible." 1984, Orwell.

Not joking. Bin Laden is still in the link, picture of an old newspaper, no additional text but the headline.

About your 1984 reference: I still don't get what is what, could you elaborate on the context here because as a Norwegian I've not had much Eurasian-Oceanic history ^^ I have no idea what is implied.

The Voice of Time wrote:Not joking. Bin Laden is still in the link, picture of an old newspaper, no additional text but the headline.

About your 1984 reference: I still don't get what is what, could you elaborate on the context here because as a Norwegian I've not had much Eurasian-Oceanic history ^^ I have no idea what is implied.

The novel 1984 by George Orwell. Everyone should read it.

The Voice of Time wrote:
About your 1984 reference: I still don't get what is what, could you elaborate on the context here because as a Norwegian I've not had much Eurasian-Oceanic history ^^ I have no idea what is implied.

"1984" is the titel of a novel by george orwell

it is very well known in the english speaking world not sure how much it has been translated

the novel describes a dystopia where among other things the government constantly alters past records

there are 3 major powers in the world - oceania eurasia and eastasia

well the alliances between them change

and when oceania starts fighting with eurasia and eastasia becomes its ally - all public records that might show that it was otherwise at some point are changed

we dont have an official policy of that but the end effect is often the same

a lot of people do not remember that bin laden et al. used to be one of the good guys fighting the evil communists who invaded afghanistan

Kayla wrote:

The Voice of Time wrote:
About your 1984 reference: I still don't get what is what, could you elaborate on the context here because as a Norwegian I've not had much Eurasian-Oceanic history ^^ I have no idea what is implied.

"1984" is the titel of a novel by george orwell

it is very well known in the english speaking world not sure how much it has been translated

the novel describes a dystopia where among other things the government constantly alters past records

there are 3 major powers in the world - oceania eurasia and eastasia

well the alliances between them change

and when oceania starts fighting with eurasia and eastasia becomes its ally - all public records that might show that it was otherwise at some point are changed

we dont have an official policy of that but the end effect is often the same

a lot of people do not remember that bin laden et al. used to be one of the good guys fighting the evil communists who invaded afghanistan

You think you are naking a logical point of any kind? After 9/11, are we to tell ourselves, "well, because he fought commies, it is okay that he murdered more than 3,000 innocent people?" And who is rewriting history? Is this the idiocy kids are believing in these days in high-school? Talk about a waste of public funds on education.

Kayla wrote:

The Voice of Time wrote:
About your 1984 reference: I still don't get what is what, could you elaborate on the context here because as a Norwegian I've not had much Eurasian-Oceanic history ^^ I have no idea what is implied.

"1984" is the titel of a novel by george orwell

it is very well known in the english speaking world not sure how much it has been translated

the novel describes a dystopia where among other things the government constantly alters past records

there are 3 major powers in the world - oceania eurasia and eastasia

well the alliances between them change

and when oceania starts fighting with eurasia and eastasia becomes its ally - all public records that might show that it was otherwise at some point are changed

we dont have an official policy of that but the end effect is often the same

a lot of people do not remember that bin laden et al. used to be one of the good guys fighting the evil communists who invaded afghanistan

fighting "evil communists" - research JFK

so why did the American Democratic party change with LBJ?

must have been the magic bullet...

-Imp

ForgedinHell wrote:You think you are naking a logical point of any kind? After 9/11, are we to tell ourselves, "well, because he fought commies, it is okay that he murdered more than 3,000 innocent people?"

No but it might be useful to remember who armed and trained him in the first place.

John wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote:You think you are naking a logical point of any kind? After 9/11, are we to tell ourselves, "well, because he fought commies, it is okay that he murdered more than 3,000 innocent people?"

No but it might be useful to remember who armed and trained him in the first place.

1. Who said there has been any such cover up, and 2. why does it make any difference?

ForgedinHell wrote:

John wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote:You think you are naking a logical point of any kind? After 9/11, are we to tell ourselves, "well, because he fought commies, it is okay that he murdered more than 3,000 innocent people?"

No but it might be useful to remember who armed and trained him in the first place.

1. Who said there has been any such cover up,

The information is readily available but I give it a generation and I reckon little of it will be in the public consciousness, if much of it still is.

ForgedinHell wrote:and 2. why does it make any difference?

You don't think there are any lessons to be learned?

I think Kayla has used the book 1984 (one of the most important books ever written) - in relation to - the recent US interaction with (use of) OBL to show/illustrate a recurring characteristic of power's urge/duty in controlling (in this case through fear of death) the masses of people; (this would also work on other power structures/governments and countries).

I think it very important no matter what your age, to take onboard the fact/truism that Governments/Power structures lie as part of the job. Power operates on a different moral terrain to you or I. When it/power says OBL did this, it is quite sane to either not believe outright or at least treat with extreme caution. If you want to keep a realistic/actualistic picture of the world you're living in that is. Power gives you the sweetest, easiest, option to digest.