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You can't dance to atheism

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:57 pm
by Lynn
You can't dance to atheism by Andrew Brown http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... cant-dance
His punchline is that,
If I'm right, then liberal, individualistic atheism is impossible as an organising principle of society because any doctrine that actually works to hold society together is indistinguishable from a religion. It needs its rituals and it needs its myths.
Any thoughts on the article?

Re: You can't dance to atheism

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:25 pm
by ForgedinHell
Lynn wrote:You can't dance to atheism by Andrew Brown http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... cant-dance
His punchline is that,
If I'm right, then liberal, individualistic atheism is impossible as an organising principle of society because any doctrine that actually works to hold society together is indistinguishable from a religion. It needs its rituals and it needs its myths.
Any thoughts on the article?
I think the author was confused.

Re: You can't dance to atheism

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:26 am
by Lynn
I think that religion and atheism are both beliefs, each a side of the same coin, with religions believing in deities and atheism not. Agnosticism takes up the middle ground, with the view that there is not sufficient knowledge to make the choice to believe or not.

Other than disbelief, does atheism hold common core concepts that all atheists follow, or is it split like religions? I have read that atheists can have differing aims e.g.
atheists should reclaim religion as an act of defiance against theism, precisely not to leave religion as an unwarranted monopoly to theists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
whereas New Atheism views that
religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/11 ... index.html
I have to add that I do know atheists who can dance, including those who protest they cannot :wink: .

Re: You can't dance to atheism

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:12 pm
by Felasco
Great article title and thread title!
I think that religion and atheism are both beliefs, each a side of the same coin, with religions believing in deities and atheism not. Agnosticism takes up the middle ground, with the view that there is not sufficient knowledge to make the choice to believe or not.
Yes, agreed, one coin, one system, built upon the usually unexamined assumption that knowing should be the method, and coming to a conclusion the appropriate goal.

I did read the article, but not sure I grasp it yet.

What the title "you can't dance to atheism" means to me is that atheism seems to reject emotion, a huge and very important aspect of the human experience.

The irony is that this rejection seems to usually be done for emotional reasons, by nerds like me, who are by nature more skilled at thinking, and perhaps less skilled in the emotional realm. I'm a programmer, so I know where of I speak on this... :-)

As example, the vast majority of forum atheists appear to be men, quite often young men, the least emotionally sophisticated segment of the population. Again, to be clear, men like me.

I do the very same thing myself. Because I am handy with logic, I continually insist everything is or should be about logic, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, thus proving I'm not so handy with logic after all. It's taken me 6 decades to find the humor in this, so younger nerds can be excused if they still take all this with deadly seriousness.

Reason is like the thin hard shell on an M&M candy. Emotion is the much larger softer and squishy middle. The soft and squishy middle is the driver, in almost all arenas except for physical survival issues.

Thus, if atheism can't dance, it's missing the biggest and most important part of the human picture.

Re: You can't dance to atheism

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:09 am
by Kuznetzova
Felasco wrote: As example, the vast majority of forum atheists appear to be men, quite often young men, the least emotionally sophisticated segment of the population. Again, to be clear, men like me.
I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but I will refer to a common personality type seen all over the internet, not just on this forum, but everywhere on the internet that any kind of complicated subject matter is breached. Forums, chatrooms, webcam meeting rooms, et cetera.

The Nietzsche Fanboy

The Nietzsche Fanboy is inevitably a white single male in the age range of 19 to 36. He quotes Nietzsche as if his works are sacred scripture. In almost every case, we are dealing with a person who neither holds nor wields any power in his actual real life. Explaining in a clear manner why he subscribes to a description of life on earth as a "will to power". Always a willing towards power, but never an actual wielding of power. (But by god, he wills towards it!) I think in the end, fanboy's devotion to the German philosopher is more a reflection of himself than any sort of careful consideration of the known facts of our condition on this planet.

Okay. Thread hijack complete. As you were....