Philosophy Now Forum

There is a puzzle called the 'Tower of Brahma' or 'Tower of Hanoi'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi

Would anyone consider the working of this, art? As a point of reference, Dance is considered an art.

thedoc wrote:There is a puzzle called the 'Tower of Brahma' or 'Tower of Hanoi'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi

Would anyone consider the working of this, art? As a point of reference, Dance is considered an art.

If the moron couldn't figure out the answer and spent hours moving discs about, I would not call that art. If the person did it in the least moves possible, I would not call that art, but being efficient. If the person mathematically proved the method for solving the problem in the least moves possible, I would call that art, or mathematics.

ForgedinHell wrote:

thedoc wrote:There is a puzzle called the 'Tower of Brahma' or 'Tower of Hanoi'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi

Would anyone consider the working of this, art? As a point of reference, Dance is considered an art.

If the moron couldn't figure out the answer and spent hours moving discs about, I would not call that art.

Why would you use the word "moron" to describe someone who couldn't complete the puzzle?

There seem to be at least 2 kinds of thought at work here. One is the person who will work the puzzle just the way it is intended, the other is the trickster who will try to figure a way to circumvent the rules and take a short cut. I encountered one of the latter when he started to place disks off the base or post onto the table, which is not really in keeping with the rules.

It is possible that a trickster will see someone who plays by the rules, as a sucker or moron.

John wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote:

thedoc wrote:There is a puzzle called the 'Tower of Brahma' or 'Tower of Hanoi'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi

Would anyone consider the working of this, art? As a point of reference, Dance is considered an art.

If the moron couldn't figure out the answer and spent hours moving discs about, I would not call that art.

Why would you use the word "moron" to describe someone who couldn't complete the puzzle?

Why not?

ForgedinHell wrote:

John wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote: If the moron couldn't figure out the answer and spent hours moving discs about, I would not call that art.

Why would you use the word "moron" to describe someone who couldn't complete the puzzle?

Why not?

Just because a particular person cannot complete the puzzle, does not make them of low intillegence. It takes a particular mind set, focus and concentration to work it through to the end. Many will work it part way through and loose track of which disk is going where, it's not that hard to loose track, but it is hard to keep up the concentration long enough to finish, especially with more than 7 disks.

thedoc wrote:

Just because a particular person cannot complete the puzzle, does not make them of low intillegence. It takes a particular mind set, focus and concentration to work it through to the end. Many will work it part way through and loose track of which disk is going where, it's not that hard to loose track, but it is hard to keep up the concentration long enough to finish, especially with more than 7 disks.

It's a simple puzzle. If they can't figure it out, then they are not too bright. Should I be politically correct and say, "perhaps they are slightly below average, but we do not know for certain, because they may have had an off day and perhaps they are much brighter than the average school lad?" Moron just seems so much more straightforward and honest to me. Can you think of a politically correct word for "bitch" or "ball buster"? Sometimes, political correctness just loses too much in the translation to be of use.

ForgedinHell wrote: It's a simple puzzle. If they can't figure it out, then they are not too bright. Should I be politically correct and say, "perhaps they are slightly below average, but we do not know for certain, because they may have had an off day and perhaps they are much brighter than the average school lad?" Moron just seems so much more straightforward and honest to me. Can you think of a politically correct word for "bitch" or "ball buster"? Sometimes, political correctness just loses too much in the translation to be of use.

Am I to assume that you have worked the puzzle successfully? If so how many disks?

BTW, I do not like 'politically correct' either, but I do not think 'moron' is a correct description.

thedoc wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote: It's a simple puzzle. If they can't figure it out, then they are not too bright. Should I be politically correct and say, "perhaps they are slightly below average, but we do not know for certain, because they may have had an off day and perhaps they are much brighter than the average school lad?" Moron just seems so much more straightforward and honest to me. Can you think of a politically correct word for "bitch" or "ball buster"? Sometimes, political correctness just loses too much in the translation to be of use.

Am I to assume that you have worked the puzzle successfully? If so how many disks?

BTW, I do not like 'politically correct' either, but I do not think 'moron' is a correct description.

I solved the puzzle with ease the first time I saw it on some book using it as an example to explain algorithms. You seriously think any clown couldn't give you the answer? It is a simple problem, almost as simple as counting to ten.

If moron isn't the correct term, then what is? Genius?

ForgedinHell wrote:

thedoc wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote: It's a simple puzzle. If they can't figure it out, then they are not too bright. Should I be politically correct and say, "perhaps they are slightly below average, but we do not know for certain, because they may have had an off day and perhaps they are much brighter than the average school lad?" Moron just seems so much more straightforward and honest to me. Can you think of a politically correct word for "bitch" or "ball buster"? Sometimes, political correctness just loses too much in the translation to be of use.

Am I to assume that you have worked the puzzle successfully? If so how many disks?

BTW, I do not like 'politically correct' either, but I do not think 'moron' is a correct description.

I solved the puzzle with ease the first time I saw it on some book using it as an example to explain algorithms. You seriously think any clown couldn't give you the answer? It is a simple problem, almost as simple as counting to ten.

If moron isn't the correct term, then what is? Genius?

You say you solved when you saw it "on a book"? Does that mean you solved in your head, or did you actually have the physical puzzle in front of you and you worked it through?

ForgedinHell wrote:

thedoc wrote:

Just because a particular person cannot complete the puzzle, does not make them of low intillegence. It takes a particular mind set, focus and concentration to work it through to the end. Many will work it part way through and loose track of which disk is going where, it's not that hard to loose track, but it is hard to keep up the concentration long enough to finish, especially with more than 7 disks.

It's a simple puzzle. If they can't figure it out, then they are not too bright. Should I be politically correct and say, "perhaps they are slightly below average, but we do not know for certain, because they may have had an off day and perhaps they are much brighter than the average school lad?" Moron just seems so much more straightforward and honest to me. Can you think of a politically correct word for "bitch" or "ball buster"? Sometimes, political correctness just loses too much in the translation to be of use.

Maybe it does, but if it's not OK to insult someone because of their ethnicity then why is it OK to insult someone because of their intellect?

To The Doc, art is what you make of it. If you can achieve any aesthetic satisfaction from it then you can call that art, but to "categorize" it art is another matter. Mathematicians use a lot of aesthetics in determining the quality of mathematical proofs. They speak of such things as "elegance", "beauty", "simplicity" and so forth, and that just by looking at a bunch of numbers, letters, and mathematical symbols!

The Voice of Time wrote:To The Doc, art is what you make of it. If you can achieve any aesthetic satisfaction from it then you can call that art, but to "categorize" it art is another matter. Mathematicians use a lot of aesthetics in determining the quality of mathematical proofs. They speak of such things as "elegance", "beauty", "simplicity" and so forth, and that just by looking at a bunch of numbers, letters, and mathematical symbols!

This was what I was looking for, till FIH, in a fit of self-aggrandizement, took it off on a tangent. My reference to dance was ment to lead in this direction that the movement of the disks could be acomplished in a smooth and flowing manner. Of course there is also the physical aesthetics of the material and finish of the puzzle itself. Mine are made of red oak and finished with Tung Oil, which gives a natural appearance.

I must assume that few here have even seen the puzzle let alone tried to work it, and I must further assume that those who have tried have failed miserably. Anyone?

thedoc wrote:I must assume that few here have even seen the puzzle let alone tried to work it, and I must further assume that those who have tried have failed miserably. Anyone?

I only know it wikipedia-style