Philosophy Now Forum

Christians claim that they get their morals from the Bible. But, in order for any Christian to accept any claim from the Bible as true, they have to judge the contents of the Bible. The system they use to judge the contents of the Bible is a prior source of morality, which means that it is impossible for Christians to get their morals from the Bible.

For example, when the Bible mentions something immoral like, "He who is withoiut sin, cast the first stone," in order for a Christian to accept that immoral statement as moral, the Christian must already have some moral code at work inside him or her in which to judge the morality of the statement. In the case of a Christian who accepts the statement as moral, their code isn't a very good one.

Christians claim that they get their morals from the Bible.

No they don't, dude! Wherever you are getting your ideas from, you need to know it's an unreliable source, and you should find a better one before you make a fool of yourself.

mickthinks wrote:Christians claim that they get their morals from the Bible.

No they don't, dude! Wherever you are getting your ideas from, you need to know it's an unreliable source, and you should find a better one before you make a fool of yourself.

Every Christian I have ever spoken or written to has stated that their morals come from the bible. You are seriously claiming otherwise? It's you who is the fool, not me.

Every Christian I have ever spoken or written to has stated that their morals come from the bible.

Then you have spoken with a lot of badly educated christians, dude. It doesn't matter how many there have been, they and you are still wrong.

mickthinks wrote:Every Christian I have ever spoken or written to has stated that their morals come from the bible.

Then you have spoken with a lot of badly educated christians, dude. It doesn't matter how many there have been, they and you are still wrong.

Every single Christian I have spoken to has gotten it wrong, and you have gotten it right? I doubt that. Christians are always flaunting their ethics as being based on their religion. Judeo-Christian ethics, blah, blah, blah. What would Jesus do bumper stickers. Jesus said this and that....

mickthinks wrote:Christians claim that they get their morals from the Bible.

No they don't, dude! Wherever you are getting your ideas from, you need to know it's an unreliable source, and you should find a better one before you make a fool of yourself.

I'm not sure what planet you have been living on but Christians have always said they get their morals from the Bible, and that anyone who doesn't believe in God couldn't possibly have any morals. Of course, no one gets their morals from the Bible because you would be the worst serial killer who ever lived if you did.

ForgedinHell wrote:Every single Christian I have spoken to has gotten it wrong, and you have gotten it right? I doubt that.

So do I, Forgy—probably you've misunderstood what some of them were saying. You wouldn't be the first atheist to do that.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:... Christians have always said they get their morals from the Bible, and that anyone who doesn't believe in God couldn't possibly have any morals.

Always? Some Christians have said things like that, but I believe none of them is a spokesperson for the religion that FiH is trying to criticise in his OP.

This, on the other hand, comes from The Vatican's website:

"Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law".

In other words, the Vatican teaches that everyone does indeed "already have some moral code at work inside him or her".

mickthinks wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote:Every single Christian I have spoken to has gotten it wrong, and you have gotten it right? I doubt that.

So do I, Forgy—probably you've misunderstood what some of them were saying. You wouldn't be the first atheist to do that.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:... Christians have always said they get their morals from the Bible, and that anyone who doesn't believe in God couldn't possibly have any morals.

Always? Some Christians have said things like that, but I believe none of them is a spokesperson for the religion that FiH is trying to criticise in his OP.

This, on the other hand, comes from The Vatican's website:

"Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law".

In other words, the Vatican teaches that everyone does indeed "already have some moral code at work inside him or her".

The Vatican? So, they use their conscience to decide that child rape is moral? That mass murder is moral? The Vatican is probably the most morally corrupt institutions around. Founded by fascists, it is rather fitting.

But, let's debunk your pathetic claim. The quote you gave mentioned "divine law," and that was what, if not a reference to the Bible?

I am acquainted with people who say they pick and choose passages from the Bible to form their moral ideas -- e.g., the ten commandments, and also the golden rule, the latter appearing in Leviticus (I think) and being also the second great commandment of Jesus. It should be noted that Confucius, in China 500 years before Christ, also proposed the golden rule. Thus I would say that Christian morality, and even atheist morality, can come from the Bible, at least in part.

There are stories in the Bible, however, about people and even about Jehovah, that don't seem to be good examples of moral behavior. According to the Bible, God supported the Hebrews, who came out of Egypt and took over the holy land from its inhabitants by force.

The Bible, to the extent that it deals with morality, largely reflects the ideas human groups had about morality at the time the Bible was written. It also depicts a God who is above "morality", if it serves his purposes -- God presumably being above everything.

ForgedinHell wrote:The Vatican is probably the most morally corrupt institutions around.

Whether Christianity is sometimes, or even always, corrupt is another topic, Forgy. You are still mistaken in your version of Christian teaching.

The quote you gave mentioned "divine law," and that was what, if not a reference to the Bible?

Okay, so you don't understand the difference between scripture and divine law. I think you should fill that gap in your knowledge before you pronounce any further on any errors you find in Christian thinking.

mickthinks wrote:

ForgedinHell wrote:The Vatican is probably the most morally corrupt institutions around.

Whether Christianity is sometimes, or even always, corrupt is another topic, Forgy. You are still mistaken in your version of Christian teaching.

The quote you gave mentioned "divine law," and that was what, if not a reference to the Bible?

Okay, so you don't understand the difference between scripture and divine law. I think you should fill that gap in your knowledge before you pronounce any further on any errors you find in Christian thinking.

LOL. You remind me of why I am an atheist -- it's because I am sane.

Where does this alleged "divine law" come from if not the Bible? And if it does exist apart from the Bible, then what should a Christian do if the Bible contradicts it? For example, maybe a Christian runs across a story by Mark Twain and decides slavery is immoral as a result. But, then the Christian reads the Bible where it is stated that Christians may not only own slaves, but they may beat them, as long as they cause no permanent damage, and slaves are encouraged to love their Christian masters. So, what is a Christian to do? Believe Mark Twain or the Bible? Or, is this "divine law" just what people write on bathroom walls? What is it then, if it is not the Bible, and why would a Christian prefer it to the Bible if it is indeed separate from the Bible? Inquiring minds want to know.

Mike Strand wrote:I am acquainted with people who say they pick and choose passages from the Bible to form their moral ideas -- e.g., the ten commandments, and also the golden rule, the latter appearing in Leviticus (I think) and being also the second great commandment of Jesus. It should be noted that Confucius, in China 500 years before Christ, also proposed the golden rule. Thus I would say that Christian morality, and even atheist morality, can come from the Bible, at least in part.

There are stories in the Bible, however, about people and even about Jehovah, that don't seem to be good examples of moral behavior. According to the Bible, God supported the Hebrews, who came out of Egypt and took over the holy land from its inhabitants by force.

The Bible, to the extent that it deals with morality, largely reflects the ideas human groups had about morality at the time the Bible was written. It also depicts a God who is above "morality", if it serves his purposes -- God presumably being above everything.

The Golden Rule is immoral. A person could commit murder-suicide by following the rule, to the letter. The ten commandments are also quite immoral, especially the part prohibiting freedom of religion. Yuck.

If anyone can come up with a single shred of morality in Christianity, I would like to see it. The only moral story is the good Samaritan, and he was not a Christian.

Where does this alleged "divine law" come from if not the Bible?

Christians believe it comes from God, not from the Bible, and that their own (God-given) conscience apprehends it.

So, what is a Christian to do?

She tries to love all others the way Christ (as she believes) loves her and follows her conscience accordingly.

mickthinks wrote:Where does this alleged "divine law" come from if not the Bible?

Christians believe it comes from God, not from the Bible, and that their own (God-given) conscience apprehends it.

So, what is a Christian to do?

She tries to love all others the way Christ (as she believes) loves her and follows her conscience accordingly.

So, it comes directly from god, yet, it was never written down, so it was directly given to us through some form of esp?

Christ did not exist, and even if the person did exist, Christ loved people so much that he will torture them for all eternity for not believing in him. Love like that makes Charles Manson look peaceful.

Christ did not exist, and even if the person did exist, Christ loved people so much that he will torture them for all eternity for not believing in him.

Yet Christians believe Christ's love for them is the model they should follow.

You don't believe that because you are not a Christian, Forgy. In your anxiety to pour scorn on some beliefs which you don't share, you seem to have lost your way in this discussion.