Philosophy Now Forum

Tim Madigan on September 11th and on a longshoreman who understood the psychology of mass movements.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/34/The_ ... _Revisited

Philosophy Now wrote:Tim Madigan on September 11th and on a longshoreman who understood the psychology of mass movements.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/34/The_ ... _Revisited

Today I finished reading a new biography of Eric Hoffer (d. May 21, 1983), author of The True Believer, who was known as “the longshoreman philosopher.” http://www.amazon.com/Eric-Hoffer-Longs ... 971&sr=1-1

Last week I offered the book to my son, an avid reader, who is interested in politics. He replied: “Who is Eric Hoffer?” Since Nick”s undergraduate major was government, and he received a law degree immediately thereafter in 2000, I was surprised at his unfamiliarity with the author of The True Believer, a classic study of the nature of mass movements.

I thought that one of his government professors should have alerted the students to Hoffer’s book. When I was in college (1960-1964), at the start of each class the professor would hand out a bibliography of books on the course subject that he or she recommended. My favorite professor of government, a true scholar and a liberal, recommended a classic, The Conservative Mind, by Russell Kirk, a book that I’ve read several times through the years. It definitely influenced me; I have a “Kirk library” to pass on to my son.

I kept all of those handouts and consulted them through the years. Alas, from my inquiries, I’ve learned that the practice from which I benefited no longer is followed by today’s professors.

We always got bibliographies at the start of our courses in the late 1980s, and I know the same was true at King's College London in the mid 1990s. I can't believe that the practice has died out everywhere. Maybe it just depends on the whims of individual professors or the accepted custom in particular universities?

I'm just re-reading The True Believer, having not really read it thoroughly enough the first time. It really is extremely good, isn't it? And not likely to lose its relevance any time soon.

I just got a Nook for my bday. I am just now charging the battery. Will I be able to read my PN magazine there as well? First thing I am going to do is download "The true believer". And see if ya'll are right about it.

Took the advice Tom and downloaded Hoffer's book.

Half-way through and very interesting it is, a kind of manual for those wishing to start a mass movement, very handy.

You think the times are becoming ripe at present as many of those he describes appear to be around in greater numbers, at least in the UK this seems the case.

Arising_uk wrote:Took the advice Tom and downloaded Hoffer's book.

Half-way through and very interesting it is, a kind of manual for those wishing to start a mass movement, very handy.

You think the times are becoming ripe at present as many of those he describes appear to be around in greater numbers, at least in the UK this seems the case.

Half way through?! Geez...how fast do you read?! Actually, I am still in the beginning...but I am glad you are reading because I was going to post something that I thought very interesting....and it pertained to our epic discussion many moons ago in the aesthetics/ Lance thread. Had I read this book then I would have quoted it to explain what I meant about the merits of teaching everyone to be artists. Hoffer says,

"Poverty when coupled with creativeness is usually free of frustration. This is true of the poor writer, artist and scientist in the full possession of creative powers. nothing bolsters self-confidence and reconciles us with ourselves as the continuous ability to create; to see things grow and develop under our hand, day in, day out. The decline of handicrafts in modern times is perhaps one if the causes for the rise of frustration and the increased susceptibility of the individual to mass movements."

Could it be that mass movements could be lessened if we would encourage creativity in all it's wild abandon? If we could create a world of self' confident people who would be impervious to join such mass movements and instead be content to create rather than destroy?

artisticsolution wrote:

Arising_uk wrote:Took the advice Tom and downloaded Hoffer's book.

Half-way through and very interesting it is, a kind of manual for those wishing to start a mass movement, very handy.

You think the times are becoming ripe at present as many of those he describes appear to be around in greater numbers, at least in the UK this seems the case.

Half way through?! Geez...how fast do you read?! Actually, I am still in the beginning...but I am glad you are reading because I was going to post something that I thought very interesting....and it pertained to our epic discussion many moons ago in the aesthetics/ Lance thread. Had I read this book then I would have quoted it to explain what I meant about the merits of teaching everyone to be artists. Hoffer says,

"Poverty when coupled with creativeness is usually free of frustration. This is true of the poor writer, artist and scientist in the full possession of creative powers. nothing bolsters self-confidence and reconciles us with ourselves as the continuous ability to create; to see things grow and develop under our hand, day in, day out. The decline of handicrafts in modern times is perhaps one if the causes for the rise of frustration and the increased susceptibility of the individual to mass movements."

RE: Could it be that mass movements could be lessened if we would encourage creativity in all it's wild abandon? If we could create a world of self' confident people who would be impervious to join such mass movements and instead be content to create rather than destroy?

ARTISTIC, I AGREE.

Here is the text of a letter that I sent to my daughter last December:

Dear Sarah,

At Thanksgiving, I was going to ask you a question. I forgot.

It was: When and why did you quit writing poetry, composing music, and painting? And didn’t you also make jewelry which you successfully sold?

I seem to recall:
- A poem was published by a Bemidji State University literary journal.
- I attended a recital when you played your composition. As I recall, your
performance got a standing ovation.
- We went to a hair salon to see your paintings on display in the waiting room.
- Didn’t Patrick suggest living on his boat, traveling, and selling your jewelry?

You have proved that you are very competent in business.

Maybe it is time to get back to literature and the arts, to aesthetic activity, to expressing your creative urges.

Love,
Dad

I believe that there are basic dimensions to human nature (intellectual, religious, aesthetic, and social) that must be exercised in some degree for the person to be healthy. I thought that Sarah's return to aesthetic activity would lessen her excessive use of alcohol. She called a few days later, thanked me for the letter, and said that she was crocheting.

Last night she called me for Father's day. She is excited about her new boyfriend. And she told me that she was singing and playing piano in a bar or lounge. I enthusiastically gave my approval.

Aesthetic activity is aesthetic activity!

artisticsolution wrote:...
Could it be that mass movements could be lessened if we would encourage creativity in all it's wild abandon? If we could create a world of self' confident people who would be impervious to join such mass movements and instead be content to create rather than destroy?

Three things AS, one, you're making an assumption that mass movements are destructive, two, I think you think that Hoffer is against mass movements and so far my reading does not get that from him, what he has done, so far, is written a manual for anyone who wishes to start one, as he identifies the types and the conditions that need to be recognised for one to start, I'm beginning to think of him as a kind of American working-class 'Lenin' in this respect, and three, he points out that these artists can happily live within a repressive regime and won't challenge the status-quo no matter what. No, four, would you not need a mass-movement for what you wish to occur?
p.s.
Got through the AC once now, will do it again to firm-up the impressions and then post in your thread.

Arising_uk wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:...
Could it be that mass movements could be lessened if we would encourage creativity in all it's wild abandon? If we could create a world of self' confident people who would be impervious to join such mass movements and instead be content to create rather than destroy?

Three things AS, one, you're making an assumption that mass movements are destructive, two, I think you think that Hoffer is against mass movements and so far my reading does not get that from him, what he has done, so far, is written a manual for anyone who wishes to start one, as he identifies the types and the conditions that need to be recognised for one to start, I'm beginning to think of him as a kind of American working-class 'Lenin' in this respect, and three, he points out that these artists can happily live within a repressive regime and won't challenge the status-quo no matter what. No, four, would you not need a mass-movement for what you wish to occur?
p.s.
Got through the AC once now, will do it again to firm-up the impressions and then post in your thread.

Well, you are certainly ahead of me! I am only half way through...maybe not even! But then...it's kinda boring...it reads like a 'dick flick' to me....lol.

1.Yes...I am thinking mass movements are destructive. Not because I think they are...but because I think that is what they eventually become. Take the USA for example...our constitution is beautifully written. In theory it seems like it could work...only when a big groups of people called "Americans" get their hands on it...all of a sudden something goes awry. I think Mass movements could screw up heaven!

2. Yes, I think Hoffer is against mass movements (at least from what I have read so far) Only because he seems to be saying that the people who follow them are kinda jacked up. He gives examples of what I consider 'negative' traits of humanity. But perhaps I am not reading him correctly.

3.Yes, he does point this out about artists...however...if all were artists...there could not be a mass movement...as artists would be happy to simply create and focus their energy on their individual "projects." That takes up most of their time anyway.

4. Yes, you would need a 'mass movement' for my silly dream to become a reality. And since most artists would probably not join like you say above...it would never 'take' off. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't work if it did! Each person pursuing the creativity he/she thought important. But then could anything get done with out a mass movement...could bridges be built? Could man have walked on the moon? So maybe there is something to say about the poor huddled masses! "Although slow and dangerous behind the wheel...perhaps they do serve a purpose."

5. I look forward to your impressions in the A/C thread.

artisticsolution wrote:...
2. Yes, I think Hoffer is against mass movements (at least from what I have read so far) Only because he seems to be saying that the people who follow them are kinda jacked up. He gives examples of what I consider 'negative' traits of humanity. But perhaps I am not reading him correctly.

Maybe I missed it but where does he say he's against them?

Arising_uk wrote:Maybe I missed it but where does he say he's against them?

I don't think he does come out and say it exactly Arising. It's just that I get a 'sense' of it by the way he words things.

For example, on pg 61 he says:

" It is somewhat terrifying to realize that the totalitarian leaders of our day, in recognizing this source of desperate courage, made use of it not only to steel the spirit of their followers but also to break the spirit of their opponents."

By using the word "terrifying" he makes a statement which feels like he might be against something...I mean if it terrifies him...but then I don't know what goes on inside all you stoopid adorable men's minds...you might all like to be 'terrified' and be for such things. I just know...I don't like to be terrified and so I would be against things that made me feel that way.

(side note: hey... I think I found a typo! Isn't 'steel' supposed to be spelled 'steal'? Not that I don't make any spelling errors...it's just that it's the first time I actually found one in a book! )

Not only that...on page 58 he says:

"But this is not an authoritative textbook. It is a book of thoughts, and it does not shy away from half-truths so long as they seem to hint at a new approach and help to formulate new questions."

I think this means that he is not writing it to be taken as a 'manual' as you suggest. To me manual and textbook are sort of the same thing...but again...I could be wrong.

I have no real proof that I my 'feelings' are the right ones...I just believe that they are so far. But again...I am not finished with the book yet. If I find any other examples I will post them.

artisticsolution wrote:I don't think he does come out and say it exactly Arising. It's just that I get a 'sense' of it by the way he words things.

For example, on pg 61 he says:

" It is somewhat terrifying to realize that the totalitarian leaders of our day, in recognizing this source of desperate courage, made use of it not only to steel the spirit of their followers but also to break the spirit of their opponents."

By using the word "terrifying" he makes a statement which feels like he might be against something...I mean if it terrifies him...but then I don't know what goes on inside all you stoopid adorable men's minds...you might all like to be 'terrified' and be for such things. I just know...I don't like to be terrified and so I would be against things that made me feel that way.

All this says to me is that he's against totalitarian leaders and the things that lead to mass movements apply across the movements regardless of ideology.
p.s.
You really need to work on that misandry as I assume you don't like misogyny.

"As Mr. Holden concluded his statement in the courtroom, Mr. Breivik smiled broadly, and as he was led out of the courtroom, he repeated the fist-pumping gesture that he affected in the first few days of the trial.

The first court-ordered assessment of his mental health, submitted last November, found him to be psychotic and a paranoid schizophrenic. The authors of the report said Mr. Breivik suffered a psychotic meltdown in 2006 when he lost money in a failed share deal, moved back in with his mother in western Oslo and began playing World of Warcraft, an online role-playing game, for 16 hours a day. The report said his mental condition left him “emotionally flattened” and led to the delusion that he was a member of a pan-European militant network that had invested in him the right to choose who should live and die.

Mr. Breivik maintains that the militant network really exists, a contention that prosecutors say is absurd. Police interviews and their own cross-examination, they say, reveal someone who has substituted a myth for an unsatisfactory life story." (Underling added)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/world ... .html?_r=1

Comments from you Hoffer fans are hereby solicited.

A:All this says to me is that he's against totalitarian leaders and the things that lead to mass movements apply across the movements regardless of ideology.

AS: Yes, you have a point here. Perhaps I am reading into it too much. But what about the other thing I mentioned?

A:p.s.
You really need to work on that misandry as I assume you don't like misogyny.

AS: I would work on it if I had it....but I don't so I won't.

tbieter wrote:"As Mr. Holden concluded his statement in the courtroom, Mr. Breivik smiled broadly, and as he was led out of the courtroom, he repeated the fist-pumping gesture that he affected in the first few days of the trial.

The first court-ordered assessment of his mental health, submitted last November, found him to be psychotic and a paranoid schizophrenic. The authors of the report said Mr. Breivik suffered a psychotic meltdown in 2006 when he lost money in a failed share deal, moved back in with his mother in western Oslo and began playing World of Warcraft, an online role-playing game, for 16 hours a day. The report said his mental condition left him “emotionally flattened” and led to the delusion that he was a member of a pan-European militant network that had invested in him the right to choose who should live and die.

Mr. Breivik maintains that the militant network really exists, a contention that prosecutors say is absurd. Police interviews and their own cross-examination, they say, reveal someone who has substituted a myth for an unsatisfactory life story." (Underling added)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/world ... .html?_r=1

Comments from you Hoffer fans are hereby solicited.

Are you saying that people who have 'unsatisfactory lives' are prone to mass movements or at least making up mass movements where none exist? Please don't make me work for it...just tell me what you mean. I'm not a mind reader you know!