Philosophy Now Forum

Do commandments and threats negate free will?

Christians think that God gave man free will. There is no question in my mind that we have free will. I think it natural. I believe that free will is something that we take and not something that can be given. Freedom is a natural part of human existence and can only be given to us if it is being forcibly restrained.

When my children chose to exercise their freedom or free will from the restrictions in our home and moved to their own, any right to control their actions was shifted from my hands to theirs. In effect I did not give them that freedom. They took it. Just as you did when you left your parental care and control. I lost the right to impose my standards on them as well as the right to reward or punish them for what they do in their homes.

God also gives mankind all kinds of commands. We are also told that if these commands are not followed, we will be severely punished. This includes loving and adoring him.

To Christians then, God gave us freedom or free will yet kept the right to reward and punish. If we compare that to the reality of life with most families, it seems that God did not give anyone free will. Instead he gives command and basically says to follow them or be punished.

Do commands and threats negate your idea of what free will is?

Regards
DL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg5UNxOmTIY

Greatest I am wrote:Do commandments and threats negate free will?

Christians think that God gave man free will. There is no question in my mind that we have free will. I think it natural. I believe that free will is something that we take and not something that can be given. Freedom is a natural part of human existence and can only be given to us if it is being forcibly restrained.

All Christian ideology is a case of keeping your cake and eating it with free-will.

Consider what use is redemption and punishment for sin in a world with an omniscient and all powerful god?

If god is omniscient then he must have know since the beginning of time that a would die A sinner and that B would die a saint.
If god knows everything then he also knows the past and the future.
So what meaning does. intercessionary prayer have. What meaning has free-will, when in the very act of your own creation god knew by that act the result of your life that your prayers were useless.
If god can change his mind because a mere human prays, then does not that show how weak god was not to have thought of the justice of a situation then any mortal can see?

No argument from me here.

Once a movie is made, it is what it is.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:No argument from me here.

Once a movie is made, it is what it is.

Regards
DL

Your problem elsewhere is that you think you know the character of the director just by looking at one of the many books that you could look into. Or indeed that there is a director in the first place.

If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

As you haven't given any reason to doubt the reality of free will, I suspect that you're mistaken about the notion. Perhaps you could clear this up by giving a definition of that which you have in mind when writing "free will".

Greatest I am wrote:Do commandments and threats negate free will?

Christians think that God gave man free will. There is no question in my mind that we have free will. I think it natural. I believe that free will is something that we take and not something that can be given. Freedom is a natural part of human existence and can only be given to us if it is being forcibly restrained.

When my children chose to exercise their freedom or free will from the restrictions in our home and moved to their own, any right to control their actions was shifted from my hands to theirs. In effect I did not give them that freedom. They took it. Just as you did when you left your parental care and control. I lost the right to impose my standards on them as well as the right to reward or punish them for what they do in their homes.

God also gives mankind all kinds of commands. We are also told that if these commands are not followed, we will be severely punished. This includes loving and adoring him.

To Christians then, God gave us freedom or free will yet kept the right to reward and punish. If we compare that to the reality of life with most families, it seems that God did not give anyone free will. Instead he gives command and basically says to follow them or be punished.

Do commands and threats negate your idea of what free will is?

Regards
DL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg5UNxOmTIY

You are arguing ends as if they are means. What of how you raised your child? You raised himher to have certain values and attitudes upon life and rights. And from where did such rights come from? I would argue the comnplete opposite of you. Your child 'took' their freedom because you allowed himher an idea of rights. It is only in you righteous idea of free will that you allow himher the ability to take thiers as a right, which you endorse.

Besides, it is not difficult to see that Gods commandments are not 'you better or else' as if we have free will, but rather if one has the proper understanding of the siotuation at hand, then they will be incapable of not 'having' the 'commandments'. One will obviously not have any other god; one will not kill nor covet, one will naturally bahave in such a way that the day of the sabbath (everyday) will be holy.

Gods 'commandments', as neediing enforcement, only come to one of free will because such a free agent exists as a place of sin. But in fact they are more like 'laws of nature' where one cannot but abide by them - except as much as they attempt to 'defy' them, as one of free will does.

This is the basic issue at hand, and is what allows for the Christian motif

chaz wyman wrote:If god knows everything then he also knows the past and the future.

From what source do you pull that God knows everything? I am confident that God knows everything now, but not tomorrow.

attofishpi wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:If god knows everything then he also knows the past and the future.

From what source do you pull that God knows everything? I am confident that God knows everything now, but not tomorrow.

Then your god is not all powerful
Not all knowing
and not all present.
I pull that gem of wisdom from just about every theological since Moses.

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Divine intervention, O my brother in tribulation!

Greatest I am wrote:

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Will is as will does.
Is it determined by the self; its experience and motivation which are determined and caused by what we become.

We can do as we will, but we cannot will as we will, Schopenhauer.

bobevenson wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Divine intervention, O my brother in tribulation!

Claiming divinity are you.

Regards
DL

chaz wyman wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

bobevenson wrote:If you think there is such a thing as free will, consider this. An exact duplicate of any human being living today, but born and raised in Mongolia 10,000 years ago, would be a totally different person than today's version. Free will? You've got to be kidding. We are prisoners of our religious, cultural and social values.

If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Will is as will does.
Is it determined by the self; its experience and motivation which are determined and caused by what we become.

+ 1

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
If you were not doing your will in responding to the O P, whose will was it?

Regards
DL

Will is as will does.
Is it determined by the self; its experience and motivation which are determined and caused by what we become.

+ 1


Regards
DL

Ah yes, I forgot - Genes is the +1.