Philosophy Now Forum

Like a thinker who has learned to think

Pluto wrote:Like a thinker who has learned to think

What is?

A dancer who has learned to dance is like a thinker who has learned to think.

Pluto wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:36 pm A dancer who has learned to dance is like a thinker who has learned to think.

How is it that a thinker learns to think?

How does a thinker learn to think?

A thinker in the sense of a philosopher, a scientist or an academic learns to think with clarity in an organized manner. In various disciplines, a systemic approach to thought and a tested method of critical review are identified as learned skills. As with other adult learning, knowledge and skills are experienced via the senses, then practiced in a controlled environment, and then performed with a base degree of competence. This process is conducted reiteratively until a satisfactory degree of mastery has been achieved.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:37 am How does a thinker learn to think?

A thinker in the sense of a philosopher, a scientist or an academic learns to think with clarity in an organized manner. In various disciplines, a systemic approach to thought and a tested method of critical review are identified as learned skills. As with other adult learning, knowledge and skills are experienced via the senses, then practiced in a controlled environment, and then performed with a base degree of competence. This process is conducted reiteratively until a satisfactory degree of mastery has been achieved.

That's also how a thinker learns to not think, which is unlike dancing.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:40 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:37 am How does a thinker learn to think?

A thinker in the sense of a philosopher, a scientist or an academic learns to think with clarity in an organized manner. In various disciplines, a systemic approach to thought and a tested method of critical review are identified as learned skills. As with other adult learning, knowledge and skills are experienced via the senses, then practiced in a controlled environment, and then performed with a base degree of competence. This process is conducted reiteratively until a satisfactory degree of mastery has been achieved.

That's also how a thinker learns to not think, which is unlike dancing.

Exactly! Dancing can be taught. Thinking, as well as not thinking, is self-acquired.

Perhaps not-thinking is self-acquired, but I was taught, so I don't know about the self-acquisition.

Dancing is movement of body.
Thinking is movement of mind.
Not-thinking is still mind.
So in that sense, dancing is unlike not-thinking.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:13 pm Perhaps not-thinking is self-acquired, but I was taught, so I don't know about the self-acquisition.

Dancing is movement of body.
Thinking is movement of mind.
Not-thinking is still mind.
So in that sense, dancing is unlike not-thinking.

You are so right, but let me try to bring the analogy back together again.

Dancing is movement of body.
Thinking is movement of mind.
Not thinking is the opposite of thinking (duh).
Not dancing is the opposite of dancing (not particularly profound, but this way the parallelism is maintained).

Who or what taught you not to think?

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:13 pm Perhaps not-thinking is self-acquired, but I was taught, so I don't know about the self-acquisition.

Dancing is movement of body.
Thinking is movement of mind.
Not-thinking is still mind.
So in that sense, dancing is unlike not-thinking.

You are so right, but let me try to bring the analogy back together again.

Dancing is movement of body.
Thinking is movement of mind.
Not thinking is the opposite of thinking (duh).
Not dancing is the opposite of dancing (not particularly profound, but this way the parallelism is maintained).

Who or what taught you not to think?

No one taught me not to think, although I did learn how to not think, from someone.

Thinking or not thinking is a red herring.

Not the point.

The point is to be neither enslaved, controlled, or attached to either, not even by preference, and that is reached through familiarity with both.

Opposites are like contradictions. They don’t exist in nature.

All desires turn to one desire which possesses body and mind, until that one desire is fulfilled by grace sooner or later, but not fulfilled by your doing or not doing, thinking or not thinking.

You learn to control desire by first being controlled by desire, while not denying that you are being controlled by desire.

When the burning, one desire of all desires is quenched by grace, then all desires are quenched, and you are free.

The best indicator for a competent thinker is that of achieving a successful and fulfilling life.

Without that they still have some learning to do.

A_Seagull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:29 am The best indicator for a competent thinker is that of achieving a successful and fulfilling life.

Without that they still have some learning to do.

Is the proof of success and fulfillment objective, or subjective?

Is the proof determined independent of the succeeder?
In other words, does the succeeder fulfill an actual definition of success?

Or, does the succeeder define success and fulfillment?

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:42 am

A_Seagull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:29 am The best indicator for a competent thinker is that of achieving a successful and fulfilling life.

Without that they still have some learning to do.

Is the proof of success and fulfillment objective, or subjective?

Is the proof determined independent of the succeeder?
In other words, does the succeeder fulfill an actual definition of success?

Or, does the succeeder define success and fulfillment?

Yes certainly it is subjective.

Objectivity is no more than consensus of subjectivity anyway.

This means that success is defined by achieving a pre-determined goal that was formed with all the wisdom that was available when the goal was formed.

It also assumes that wisdom gained from pursuing the goal is consistent with the wisdom prior to pursuing the goal, which may or may not be the case.

However, the goal-forming wisdom had better be consistent with the new wisdom of life found in pursuit of the goal, even consistent with the wisdom of a teenager forming the goal, considering the cost of college these days. Not much room for error when incurring the lifetime debt required to pay for college education these days. There's no such thing as working your way through college anymore, the government profits from education debt so the system is geared towards that.