Philosophy Now Forum

I came across the phrase overriding philosophy. Imagine philosophy overriding anything. But it does. It's like philosophy being in the saddle riding, and overriding, events.

What's my overriding philosophy? For some it's avoiding confrontation or living the best they can. For the World I would say it's globalization. I guess one of mine is discovering new things to think about.

Some people have a hidden overriding philosophy - procrastination.

It seems this thread was dropped by the wayside. Maybe there's interest now that wasn't there before. My best guess is that Spike was asking if you might have a core philosophical concept that holds a position of primacy in your thinking.

For me, it might have something to do with altruism. I might choose a variation of an old rule to describe what motivates me: do for others that which they want done for them. My sense is that living the good life rightly informs my position in any other forum.

One could argue that metaphysics comes first because it oversees everything else. One could say that language comes first because without language to express thought there can be no thinking. Another might argue that the search for proof of a god is more important than anything else. Any area of philosophy could be promoted as a home for all other areas.

I'll wager that there are some who could describe their overriding philosophy as well as I have mine.

Time not important. Only life important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrB9ciZTxyo

spike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:39 pm I came across the phrase overriding philosophy. Imagine philosophy overriding anything. But it does. It's like philosophy being in the saddle riding, and overriding, events.

What's my overriding philosophy? For some it's avoiding confrontation or living the best they can. For the World I would say it's globalization. I guess one of mine is discovering new things to think about.

Yes, philosophy-proper encompasses and overrides everything.
That is why we have "The Philosophy of X" where X can be anything.
We can have the Philosophy of Science but not the Science of Philosophy-proper.
Thus philosophy-proper is the ultimate meta- impulse of the intellect and wisdom faculty.

In the above sense we have to differentiate philosophy-proper from philosophy as an academic subject or a mental-dildo.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:05 am Yes, philosophy-proper encompasses and overrides everything.

Citation/evidence?

Otherwise state that this is YOUR pre-supposition/axiomatic ASSUMPTION

Having put forth 6 questions/challenges that you can't navigate around and I can, I would imagine that whatever "philosophy-proper" you are practicing cannot override real-world problems. Therefore it doesn't override "everything".

Q.E.D 1+1=2 OR 1+1=10 ? Which one and why?

The science of "Philosophy-proper" is systems theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory and I have been demonstrating this truth-claim for about a month now

spike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:39 pm What's my overriding philosophy?

Pragmatism or thereaebouts. Truth is whatever works IN PRACTICE towards achieving a goal. It is the philosophy embraced by Science.

Originally: William James, John Dewey and Charles Sanders Pierce.
More recently (and distinguished as neopragmatism): RIchard Rorty

For more nuance, one could even go with William Ernest Hocking's "negative pragmatism" to which Richard Feynman subscribed. "We never are definitely right, we can only be sure we are wrong."

A corollary that follows: A Philosophy that no clear goals contains no truth.Which is rather bad news for the philosophical establishment of 2018...

All of that knowledge/thinking is already encompassed and synthesized in Systems Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory

Because systems theory is about iterative improvement we iterate and improve even the philosophical foundation itself. Which is why "The Truth is what works" is all that we can say about it.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:20 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:05 am Yes, philosophy-proper encompasses and overrides everything.

Citation/evidence?

Otherwise state that this is YOUR pre-supposition/axiomatic ASSUMPTION

Having put forth 6 questions/challenges that you can't navigate around and I can, I would imagine that whatever "philosophy-proper" you are practicing cannot override real-world problems. Therefore it doesn't override "everything".

Q.E.D 1+1=2 OR 1+1=10 ? Which one and why?

The science of "Philosophy-proper" is systems theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory and I have been demonstrating this truth-claim for about a month now

You don't have a solid foundation of 'what is philosophy' as a subject thus not in a position to understand what is philosophy-proper [i.e. Metaphilosophy]. I have wasted too much time responding to your posts in general. It is my discretion, I will only do so where there is something worthwhile for me to response.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:27 am

spike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:39 pm What's my overriding philosophy?

Pragmatism or thereaebouts. Truth is whatever works IN PRACTICE towards achieving a goal. It is the philosophy embraced by Science.

Originally: William James, John Dewey and Charles Sanders Pierce.
More recently (and distinguished as neopragmatism): RIchard Rorty

For more nuance, one could even go with William Ernest Hocking's "negative pragmatism" to which Richard Feynman subscribed. "We never are definitely right, we can only be sure we are wrong."

A corollary that follows: A Philosophy that no clear goals contains no truth.Which is rather bad news for the philosophical establishment of 2018...

All of that knowledge/thinking is already encompassed and synthesized in Systems Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory

Because systems theory is about iterative improvement we iterate and improve even the philosophical foundation itself. Which is why "The Truth is what works" is all that we can say about it.

Pragmatism??
Hitler thought it was very pragmatic and applying system theory to exterminate the Jews.

What you missed out is the Philosophy of Morality & Ethics which is a subset of Philosophy-proper, i.e. Meta-Philosophy.
Meta-Philosophy encompasses many other fields of knowledge notably "Management"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_management
the Principles of Management are applicable to all human activities.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:16 am You don't have a solid foundation of 'what is philosophy' as a subject thus not in a position to understand what is philosophy-proper [i.e. Metaphilosophy]. I have wasted too much time responding to your posts in general. It is my discretion, I will only do so where there is something worthwhile for me to response.

That is a rather convenient deflection. And your continued "No True Scotsman" fallacy while you fail to address my challenges.

Philosophy hasn't solved the problem of infinite regress. So if by "solid foundation" you mean "having sufficiently paved over the crater with enough waffle so as to allow yourself to forget about it" - then fine. You have chosen your religion/delusion.

I don't have a solid foundation in Metaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have solid foundation in Metametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have solid foundation in Metametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have solid foundation in Metametametametametametaphilosophy

What I do have is a proven (you call it 'evidence' - or something) track-record in real-world, pragmatic ethics. I solve the problems you ignore.

So it's not so much that you have wasted any time ON ME. By PRETENDING the problem doesn't exist YOU are wasting your own time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrich_policy

"Ostrich policy" is a metaphoric expression referring to the tendency to ignore obvious dangers or problems and pretend they don't exist; the expression derives from the supposed habit of ostriches to stick their head in the sand rather than face danger.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:29 am Pragmatism??
Hitler thought it was very pragmatic and applying system theory to exterminate the Jews.

What you missed out is the Philosophy of Morality & Ethics which is a subset of Philosophy-proper, i.e. Meta-Philosophy.
Meta-Philosophy encompasses many other fields of knowledge notably "Management"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_management
the Principles of Management are applicable to all human activities.

*YAWN* do you not get bored of building strawmen?

The rest of the world thought that Hitler was an asshole. So, PRAGMATICALLY, we killed him and a bunch of his countrymen before they killed us.

The only source of ethics is applied/pragmatic ethics - both at the individual AND at the social scale. Everything else is lip service. Might makes right.

Allow me to quote from your very own links:

In the field of management, strategic management involves the formulation and implementation of the major goals.

Now, you seem to adhere to the principles of "Philosophy-proper" a whole lot, please do enlighten us - how has Strategic management solved the is-ought gap? Because that is what goals are, right! Goals are oughts e.g SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS.

Or do you only appeal and adhere to "Philosophy-proper" when it suits you?

You know how a pragmatist solves the is-ought gap? Ignore it! And, let me tell you - it works!
Philosophers are the 21st century theists!

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:16 am You don't have a solid foundation of 'what is philosophy' as a subject thus not in a position to understand what is philosophy-proper [i.e. Metaphilosophy]. I have wasted too much time responding to your posts in general. It is my discretion, I will only do so where there is something worthwhile for me to response.

Here is an algorithmic ad hominem for you ( so you don't have to waste your precious time responding to me in the future): https://repl.it/repls/HiddenAlarmingHarddrives

This is what your "point" reduces down to. If you want more metas just change the 20 to the number you like

METAS=20
1.step(METAS,2) do |i|
puts "I don't have a solid foundation in Meta#{sprintf('meta')*(i-1)}philosophy"
puts "You don't have a solid foundation in Meta#{sprintf('meta')*i}philosophy"
end

I don't have a solid foundation in Metaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
I don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy
You don't have a solid foundation in Metametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametametaphilosophy

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:06 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:29 am Pragmatism??
Hitler thought it was very pragmatic and applying system theory to exterminate the Jews.

What you missed out is the Philosophy of Morality & Ethics which is a subset of Philosophy-proper, i.e. Meta-Philosophy.
Meta-Philosophy encompasses many other fields of knowledge notably "Management"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_management
the Principles of Management are applicable to all human activities.

*YAWN* do you not get bored of building strawmen?

The rest of the world thought that Hitler was an asshole. So, PRAGMATICALLY, we killed him and a bunch of his countrymen before they killed us.
...

Isn't prevention better than cure?
That's wisdom, i.e. fundamentally is philosophy-proper.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:29 am Isn't prevention better than cure?
That's wisdom, i.e. fundamentally is philosophy-proper.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Well done. You are preaching Christianity!

For somebody who fights against "religious evil" you have just re-invented the Christian god.

Until you invent a Time Machine you aren't preventing the Hollocaust. It happened. Learn from it and let it go. What you are preaching (wisdom) is FORECASTING and PREVENTING FUTURE ATTROCITIES. And you may actually find that most of the human race already agrees with you (so no need to waffle about it).

If prevention is wisdom. Then prevention requires PERFECT PREDICTION of the FUTURE. Perfect prediction requires PERFECT INFORMATION. This is omniscience! (Perfect knowledge)
Once you KNOW what will happen in the FUTURE you need to know what needs to CHANGE in the PAST and HOW to CHANGE IT in order to PREVENT this this thing that you want to PREVENT. This is omnipotence! (Ability to actualise your ideas)
Once you know what needs to change in order to prevent the Hollocaust you need to BE ABLE TO ENACT CHANGE at the RIGHT TIME and in the RIGHT PLACE to prevent it. This is omnipresence! (Spacetime travel)

Collectively and colloquially what you call WISDOM is exactly the same human ideal as CONTROL; or DETERMINISM. Or any of the other hundred synonyms we have for the same DESIRE!

You WANT to CONTROL THE FUTURE.. Congratulations. So does every other human being.

We know the past but cannot control it. We control the future but cannot know it. --Claude E Shannon ( The father of Information Theory )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory

Pragmatism is what is BORN once you recognize that the IDEALS are impossible! Because ARROW OF TIME ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time )

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

WISDOM = PHILOSOPHY-PROPER = PREVENTION = CONTROL = FUTURE DETERMINISM = OMNISCIENCE + OMNIPRESENCE + OMNIPOTENCE = PRAGMATISM

Welcome to Philosophy. Equivocating the same idea for 2000 years.

The notions of perfect knowledge, prediction and control are enshrined in the scientific method, and in particular physics!