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Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Moral Im
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:42 pm
by Philosophy Now
Dr E. R. Klein says we should reconsider the value of space exploration and start getting ready to leave the nest.
http://philosophynow.org/issues/61/Spac ... Imperative
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:42 pm
by spike
Just came back from a Mayan exhibition at the museum. Because of it I recalled that we were told that according to the Mayan calendar the world will end by the end of the year. So I am thinking, it is kind of late for humans to go into Space in order to survive. We don't have the means yet to colonize other planets to save ourselves or the Earth as this article has suggested we should.
I do believe the reason we are venturing into outer space, though not consciously, is for the purpose of someday colonizing it so as to take environmental pressure off the Earth. It is for the same reason Christopher Columbus came to the New World, to take pressure off the Old World. The colonization of the New World replenished the Old World in many ways, with new resources and means of doing business. Going into Space should work the same way.
Even though we haven't yet colonized outer space our venturing into it has already made a difference, taking some pressure off the world's environment and resources. For instance, our seeing pictures of our planet from outer space (1969), in a sea of darkness and looking vulnerable, I think had a positive influence in changing our attitude in dealing with our our environment. Had we not seen Earth like that first I don't think Earth Day (1970) would have been created or the movement that has followed it. I think that vision of Earth changed us forever, making us somewhat more aware and better stewards of our environment than if we hadn't seen it.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:48 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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Yeah, um...that jumpin off thingy.
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Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:15 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Moral Imperative, my ass!!!!!!
With any luck we'll all stay here and die off. I see no sense in spreading the cancer. My only regret would be the death of the babies, animals and all the plant life. All us adult humanoids can go to hell!
The lesson learned of Easter Island is not to spread the cancer elsewhere before it's impossible to do so, but to stop it, through self control; seek and maintain balance.
Man is the most fucked up animal ever!!!!
Now if in fact I actually saw an inkling of actual concern for the damage we are doing to our planets biosphere (the symbiosis); population control as a means of balancing the earths ecosystems; 100% recycling; solar energy exploitation, the only sound solution; end of warring; life over money; making decisions because they're smart, not because they pay; abolishment of golden idol worship, altogether; all working with and respecting all in the name of our common miraculous life; the ability of actually balancing his hemispheres in the face of his selfishness, then and only then, would I support such a venture, but then if mankind could actually balance his selfishness with the symbiosis that is life on planet earth it wouldn't be required, would it?.
If in fact this years winter solstice marks the end of humanity, in the face of the quality of our current stewardship of our planet, I say good riddance, we, dumb fucking selfish animals, we!!!!!
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:31 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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You are a god!
.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:51 am
by Arising_uk
spike wrote:Just came back from a Mayan exhibition at the museum. Because of it I recalled that we were told that according to the Mayan calendar the world will end by the end of the year. So I am thinking, it is kind of late for humans to go into Space in order to survive. We don't have the means yet to colonize other planets to save ourselves or the Earth as this article has suggested we should.
Theres bugger all evidence that the Mayans thought this, more likely someone making a buck from an alarmist book. What there is, is the idea that the Mayans thought things went in cycles and the cycle is changing this year in our calendar. but the Hindus have cycles as well so why not use theirs for such alarms.
I do believe the reason we are venturing into outer space, though not consciously, is for the purpose of someday colonizing it so as to take environmental pressure off the Earth. It is for the same reason Christopher Columbus came to the New World, to take pressure off the Old World. The colonization of the New World replenished the Old World in many ways, with new resources and means of doing business. Going into Space should work the same way.
We'd have to go some to be able to shift enough colonists off the planet to make a difference. It'd involve the idea of humongous orbitals or terra-forming and we're no-where near being able to do such things, and if we could do the latter then we'd not have the issue with the environment in the first place.
Even though we haven't yet colonized outer space our venturing into it has already made a difference, taking some pressure off the world's environment and resources. For instance, our seeing pictures of our planet from outer space (1969), in a sea of darkness and looking vulnerable, I think had a positive influence in changing our attitude in dealing with our our environment. Had we not seen Earth like that first I don't think Earth Day (1970) would have been created or the movement that has followed it. I think that vision of Earth changed us forever, making us somewhat more aware and better stewards of our environment than if we hadn't seen it.
I think this a fair point. But the "yet" in your words is pretty unlikely, unless there are some serious developments in the sciences, as we have no practical launch system that can lift the kind of materials we'd need out of the gavity well. It'd begger the worlds resources to do it with the tech we have now.
At best our aim should be to get to the resources of the asteroid belts, that at least may help with our environmental problems due to our energy and material needs. But again its a fair way off. I think if anyones going to do it, it'll be the Chinese as they have the manpower to waste in the attempt and with a billion people wanting tellys and cars the economic need.
Although there is one way, the old Orion spaceship model. But I doubt anyone is going to allow that or even the transportation of the nuclear materials into Earth orbit. Still, could we just launch the ICBMs into orbit?
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:44 am
by SpheresOfBalance
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
You are a god!
.
Bill, I think you're being a bit dramatic. I'm simply one that can look in the mirror and be critical of both myself and the rest of human kind as a whole, where most people only look into the mirror with ego, arrogance and praise for themselves and the twisted institutions that they've bought into, because it serves their desires. Most are truly those with the drunken and the passionate pride that are simply along for the ride, be it a one way ticket to oblivion, or not.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:11 pm
by chaz wyman
The earth offers everything we need as a species.
We have evolved for millions of years from the needs of survival here and are eloquently adapted to living here.
We now have the potential technology to be able to modify ourselves to more quickly adapt to any changes this world might bring.
But even the most catastrophic changes that have occurred here on earth are more easy to adapt to than ANY of the hostile environments that would ever be within our reach from space travel.
And to find such planets that are more amenable to human life would require such vast expenditures of energy and other resources; and would take such ridiculous lengths of time to travel, as to make such a venture near to impossible and more importantly of no use to us what so ever.
The entire issue is a boy's dream, but requires a man's effort and money.
On the most conservative estimates from the late 1960s, by now we should have had several bases on the moon from which we were to have been sending regular shuttles to Mars for terraforming and colonisation.
Why has this not happened?
If have learned our fruitless it was to send manned missions to the Moon, then the second less of making the same mistake with Mars will come. I believe that the resources might never be assembled for a manned trip to Mars. This would be a lesson well learned.
How massive a ship would be required to store enough food and water; and/or sufficient recycling facilities reliable enough and great enough for the (minimum) two year trip. The ship would have to be equipped with artificial gravity. It would have to have massive amounts of fuel to land AND (more importantly) return! The extra burden of carrying the fuel for leaving Mars and for setting course home would make the trip out to Mars prohibitive, quadrupling the requirement - you'd have to take it all with you- it would all have to escape earth gravity and then Mars' for the return trip.. And then what could you bring back? Each kilo would massively increase the energy burden for such a venture.
Let's image that the fuel was no problem - that we had discovered a zero mass means of propulsion. That would still leave the question why go at all? There is nothing there but cold hard desert and carbon dioxide. Mars has nothing we cannot get here.
So where are we going to go that can even match the natural resources? What persons would commit 10 years of there life on a lonely venture to the nearest star? And to find what exactly?
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:15 pm
by chaz wyman
spike wrote:Just came back from a Mayan exhibition at the museum. Because of it I recalled that we were told that according to the Mayan calendar the world will end by the end of the year. So I am thinking, it is kind of late for humans to go into Space in order to survive. We don't have the means yet to colonize other planets to save ourselves or the Earth as this article has
suggested we should.
THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH!!!!
Even though we haven't yet colonized outer space our venturing into it has already made a difference, taking some pressure off the world's environment and resources.
My vote for the dumbest comment of the week!
What would we have done without all that space food?
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:52 am
by Arising_uk
You know I pretty much agree with you but in the interests ...
chaz wyman wrote:...
How massive a ship would be required to store enough food and water; and/or sufficient recycling facilities reliable enough and great enough for the (minimum) two year trip. The ship would have to be equipped with artificial gravity. It would have to have massive amounts of fuel to land AND (more importantly) return! The extra burden of carrying the fuel for leaving Mars and for setting course home would make the trip out to Mars prohibitive, quadrupling the requirement - you'd have to take it all with you- it would all have to escape earth gravity and then Mars' for the return trip.. And then what could you bring back? Each kilo would massively increase the energy burden for such a venture. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... ropulsion)
Let's image that the fuel was no problem - that we had discovered a zero mass means of propulsion. That would still leave the question why go at all? There is nothing there but cold hard desert and carbon dioxide. Mars has nothing we cannot get here.
So where are we going to go that can even match the natural resources? What persons would commit 10 years of there life on a lonely venture to the nearest star? And to find what exactly?
Not the stars but for resources. The asteroid belt supposedly surpasses our natural resources, in minerals anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
One of the billion poor Chinese might give it a go if the rewards were big enough and if their family was recompensed for any deaths.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:57 am
by John
You'd get a queue of people willing to give up 10 years to go into space. Hell, someone responded to that
German guy's advert to be eaten so what's 10 years in space?
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:42 am
by RickLewis
Arising_uk wrote:I think this a fair point. But the "yet" in your words is pretty unlikely, unless there are some serious developments in the sciences, as we have no practical launch system that can lift the kind of materials we'd need out of the gavity well. It'd begger the worlds resources to do it with the tech we have now.
I might have agreed, except that I think that the discovery of ice in craters near the south pole of the Moon a couple of years back is a massive game-changer. If our Moon has ice in decent quantities, then it can be used to produce water, oxygen, and rocket fuel, all outside Earth's gravity well. As our Moon also has iron, aluminium and other metals in decent quantities, in principle we could manufacture anything we need for space travel and colonization right there. For this reason, I bet that in a couple of hundred years there will be self-sustaining colonies on both the Moon and Mars. It won't do anything much to ease the Earth's population/resources/environmental problems, I'm afraid, but it might provide an insurance policy, as Stephen Hawkings again suggested recently - an outside chance of our species surviving even if we manage to make Earth completely uninhabitable.
By the way, this forum's (now completely moribund) sister forum used to have a lot of discussion of issues just like this. Like the Moon, nobody goes there any more, but also like the Moon, it still exists - here it is:
http://forum.spaceagemag.com
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:54 am
by artisticsolution
Thanks for the link Rick! Sounds pretty cool and I do love a good (positive) solution. Perhaps, you could post a link here to the more exciting threads? That would be awesome if you could and then we could discuss them here.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:06 am
by Arising_uk
RickLewis wrote:...
I might have agreed, except that I think that the discovery of ice in craters near the south pole of the Moon a couple of years back is a massive game-changer. If our Moon has ice in decent quantities, then it can be used to produce water, oxygen, and rocket fuel, all outside Earth's gravity well. As our Moon also has iron, aluminium and other metals in decent quantities, in principle we could manufacture anything we need for space travel and colonization right there. For this reason, I bet that in a couple of hundred years there will be self-sustaining colonies on both the Moon and Mars. It won't do anything much to ease the Earth's population/resources/environmental problems, I'm afraid, but it might provide an insurance policy, as Stephen Hawkings again suggested recently - an outside chance of our species surviving even if we manage to make Earth completely uninhabitable. ...
Ever the optimist eh! Rick.
Still massive problems with construction methods in pretty much zero-gee and we'd still need to lift much of the stuff there in the first place.
By the way, this forum's (now completely moribund) sister forum used to have a lot of discussion of issues just like this. Like the Moon, nobody goes there any more, but also like the Moon, it still exists - here it is:
http://forum.spaceagemag.com
Try losing that bloody starry background.
Re: Space Exploration: Humanity’s Single Most Important Mora
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:08 am
by John
artisticsolution wrote:Thanks for the link Rick! Sounds pretty cool and I do love a good (positive) solution. Perhaps, you could post a link here to the more exciting threads? That would be awesome if you could and then we could discuss them here.
I think he'd rather you discussed them there to be honest to give the forum a little life.
I've posted on the space forum but it was a while ago and, as Rick says, it's rather moribund.
