Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:38 am**

Well, I'm 44 years old. My parents are in their late 70s. My parents and I have always been very close. I lost my grandmother almost 10 years back. Of course she was suffering from alzeimers for many years so it was a slow loss, not so abrupt as the death of a close relative could be. Now I'm suffering from sleep apnea and my memory isn't all that great anymore. When I think of my own end being not too far off I really start to think of what was it all about? Life seems so incredibly short from my perspective right now. If we are simply a "flash in the pan" so to speak what difference does any of this really make. Maybe I'm just in a meloncholy mood right now. But inevitable death puts everything in an all new perspective for me.

I'm facing a life decision of continuing my philosophy education. It will be a big undertaking going back to school (albeit online classes). I sort of wonder to myself why I should even put forth the effort? I'm just going to die someday anyway. What's worse is I'll probably forget everything I learn within a few months anyway. What difference does it make how educated or uneducated I am? What difference does it make if I try to improve my life? There isn't that much more to go anyway. It seems like a wasted effort, all in vain. Yeah, more education will make me more "marketable". Is that what it's all about? Just doing what it takes to stay alive and prosperous a little longer. How depressing it all seems right now.

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:35 pm**

Cheer up me old mucker - things ain't so bad!

Clearly there are things and people that matter a great deal to you - you said yourself that you are very close to your parents. You ask what difference it will make if you improve your life: well, I'm sure it would make your parents happy and it would probably make you happier too. Isn't that good enough?

I suspect you are asking if it would "make a difference" from some objective, eternal point of view, such as the point of view of the universe as a whole, if you improve your life. Maybe not. Probably the "universe as a whole" just isn't the sort of thing that cares what anyone does. Don't take that personally! It isn't a negative reflection on your life if trees and mountains and stars don't care about you - it is just the way they are.

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:03 pm**

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:26 pm**

Hi Gary,

Well, I'm 44 years old.

Translation: You're no longer a 20 something semi-child suffering from the illusion of eternal invulnerability. You're also no where near old age and the peace it can bring. You may feel old today, but it's just an illusion. Because you aren't old, but in the prime of your life.

When I think of my own end being not too far off I really start to think of what was it all about? Life seems so incredibly short from my perspective right now. If we are simply a "flash in the pan" so to speak what difference does any of this really make. Maybe I'm just in a meloncholy mood right now. But inevitable death puts everything in an all new perspective for me.

The inevitability of death is supposed to give you a new perspective. That's a gift, not a curse. If you'll embrace the gift and gratefully accept it, you'll be more alive.

Let's give death a human face. How about your grandma's face? Now reach out, and give Grandma Death a big hug. Look death in the eye, give her a big kiss, and tell her you love her, and that you'll be bringing her a big plate of cookies as soon as you can.

If you can love death, she will love you back. If you scorn and insult her, she will give you the cold shoulder in return. Death is a beautiful woman who will be living in your house every day the rest of your life. Be wise, and treat her kindly and with respect!

Here's why you're feeling melancholy. Apologies, but it's because you are doing sloppy philosophy.

First, a clear minded observation of the facts reveal that none of us know anything at all about death. We simply don't.

We passionately WISH we knew about death, and so PRETEND that we know, but that is hardly the same as knowing anything at all.

Please observe how this is true whether one is a theist or an atheist. Some of us assume we are going to heaven to see Jesus etc, and some of us assume our bodies will rot in the ground and that's it. It doesn't matter which faith we have, or how adamant our theist or atheist faith is. The facts still remain, none of us know.

What is the logical course of action if we face the fact that we don't know?

Philosophy would suggest more clear minded observation of reality.

If we have been clear minded and honest enough to face the evidence and see that we don't know, then what?

We can then observe that being alive means we have a choice about how we react to the fact of death, and our ignorance.

We have a choice.

We can choose to be happy. We can choose to be sad.

We can choose.

If we choose to be sad, as is our right, we should be clear minded about it.

We are choosing to be sad. We aren't a victim of death or fate or anything or anybody else. We've made a choice, and now we are getting just what we've asked for.

Choosing sadness isn't wrong, that's part of life too.

But choosing an illusion that it's anybody but us choosing sadness is philosophically sloppy. Let's not blame our own choices on Lady Death.

I'm facing a life decision of continuing my philosophy education.

Your philosophy education is going to continue whether you like it or not. You likely have decades of study left to go.

Personally, imho, philosophy will always take a back seat to art in regards to the exploration of death. Philosophy is itself too dead to regard death properly.

As example, please watch the movie All That Jazz, and then try to point to a philosophy book that comes even close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_That_Jazz

It's show time folks!

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:32 pm**

.

Gary, why don't you stop learning about philosophy and become a philosopher - right now.

Spend the rest of your days lurking & posting here at the Philosophy Now Forums.

You said yourself that you are very close to your parents. In cyberspeak I'll take that to mean that you are living in their basement and they are supporting you in this wild education thingy of yours. That's GREAT! Welcome to 2011!

Take your present feelings about life: your own end being not too far off, what was it all about?, I'm just going to die someday anyway, I'm just a "flash in the pan", How depressing it all seems and start defending those positions!

With your limited education, short memory, and melancholy mood you will thrive here!

Welcome aboard!

Just do what it takes to stay alive and prosperous a little longer. There isn't that much more to go anyway.

The End is Nigh is a GREAT opening statement!

As our original founder and esteemed member Rick Lewis stated, I suspect you are asking if it would "make a difference" from some objective, eternal point of view, such as the point of view of the universe as a whole, if you improve your life. Maybe not. Probably the "universe as a whole" just isn't the sort of thing that cares what anyone does.

Yeah, more education will make you more "marketable". Is that what it's all about?

What difference does any of this really make?

You're going to like this place and I bet we'll like you!

WELCOME Gary Childress!

You could copy and paste your original post The End is Nigh and place it under the Introduce Yourself category.

Here we go!

.

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:02 pm**

With your limited education, short memory, and melancholy mood you will thrive here!

Ha, ha!

As our original founder and esteemed member Rick Lewis stated, I suspect you are asking if it would "make a difference" from some objective, eternal point of view, such as the point of view of the universe as a whole, if you improve your life. Maybe not. Probably the "universe as a whole" just isn't the sort of thing that cares what anyone does.

A more precise, accurate and philosophically correct statement would be...

We don't know if the universe as a whole cares about what anyone does.

Here's a simple question that will punch a huge hole in our all our fantasy knowings.

When will science end? When will we run out of new things to learn via the scientific method?

Before you answer, let us first please observe that knowledge appears to develop exponentially. That is, the more we know, the faster we can learn new things.

So, with that in mind, let's ask, when will we run out of new things to learn? When? Upon what day will the scientists all over the world come together at the podium and announce...

"Ok, that's it, we're done, we've learned everything, there's nothing left for us to do."

If we feel that science will continue for thousands of years yet, probably at an ever accelerating pace, that means...

We currently know almost nothing.

A true scientist will acknowledge this ignorance. Somebody who is trying to turn science in to a religion will claim that science knows about death.

Yeah, more education will make you more "marketable". Is that what it's all about?

A philosophy education makes one more marketable where exactly? Not clear on that part...

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:32 pm**

Gary Childress wrote:Well, I'm 44 years old. My parents are in their late 70s. My parents and I have always been very close. I lost my grandmother almost 10 years back. Of course she was suffering from alzeimers for many years so it was a slow loss, not so abrupt as the death of a close relative could be. Now I'm suffering from sleep apnea and my memory isn't all that great anymore. When I think of my own end being not too far off I really start to think of what was it all about? Life seems so incredibly short from my perspective right now. If we are simply a "flash in the pan" so to speak what difference does any of this really make. Maybe I'm just in a meloncholy mood right now. But inevitable death puts everything in an all new perspective for me.

I'm facing a life decision of continuing my philosophy education. It will be a big undertaking going back to school (albeit online classes). I sort of wonder to myself why I should even put forth the effort? I'm just going to die someday anyway. What's worse is I'll probably forget everything I learn within a few months anyway. What difference does it make how educated or uneducated I am? What difference does it make if I try to improve my life? There isn't that much more to go anyway. It seems like a wasted effort, all in vain. Yeah, more education will make me more "marketable". Is that what it's all about? Just doing what it takes to stay alive and prosperous a little longer. How depressing it all seems right now.

Is your aponea diagnosed, or do you just think you have it? There are some basic precautions you can take that will help. Loosing weight if you are fat is the most important. Change the regime of your pillows mattress etc. Most people use too many pillows - one firm one will do you. Blow your nose before bedtime and.or use menthol or Olbas oil to keep your passages clear. If it is a serious problem then get your tonsils removed - that will wake up your ideas for a couple of weeks!
If you think a philosophy education is going to make you more 'marketable' then you are choosing the wrong reason to study. You would do better to find something more vocational.

I have great news for you. None of this makes any difference on the grand scheme of things. So doing it and failing won't matter. Doing it and enjoying it for its own sake, you don't have to feel guilty about. And since you are going to die anyway - you might as well do it all whilst you still can. What is stopping you? Do you really want your entire life to be about the sleep/work/eat/TV/sleep cycle? round and round until you get feeble and die?

Just remember. Your death has ALWAYS been inevitable. So why should you be pissed off about it now? Why not wait a few more years. Why get pissed off at all? Do some study keep your brain alive!.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:26 am**

RickLewis wrote:Cheer up me old mucker - things ain't so bad!

Clearly there are things and people that matter a great deal to you - you said yourself that you are very close to your parents. You ask what difference it will make if you improve your life: well, I'm sure it would make your parents happy and it would probably make you happier too. Isn't that good enough?

I suspect you are asking if it would "make a difference" from some objective, eternal point of view, such as the point of view of the universe as a whole, if you improve your life. Maybe not. Probably the "universe as a whole" just isn't the sort of thing that cares what anyone does. Don't take that personally! It isn't a negative reflection on your life if trees and mountains and stars don't care about you - it is just the way they are.

Put it this way. Suppose I continue my philosophy education. Suppose I learn a lot in it. I wonder how long it will be before I have forgotten almost everything I learned? I can't take it with me. What ultimate good is it to learn only to forget? Even now some words seem strange to me, like I've never seen them spelled this way before even though they are spelled correctly. My mind is slowly going on me. I wonder how much longer I have before a full blown stroke? Once upon a time it seemed fruitful to learn and develop. Now it seems like the time to learn and develop are passed. I feel like I should just hunker down and live out the rest of my life in peace. My productive years are numbered. Recently a family friend who also has sleep apnea developed alzeimers. Almost over night he lost track of who he was, who his wife was and just about anything else that once made him who he is. What a way to go. He's fortunate that he has a wife who will probably outlive him and be able to care for him. I don't have anyone to care for me when my folks are gone. No wife, no children. I'll probably be one of those cases where the neighbor notices my lawn hasn't been mowed in a month and they'll come in to find me dead and rotting in a chair or something.

It really makes me stop and wonder what all this was really for. I'm not going to be here. No relatives of mine are going to be here. What do I care about the world after I'm gone. The end is the end. It will come to us all and it will come to the planet and the universe eventually as well. Once the end comes what difference does anything before it make? I could have been a prince or a pauper, either way when the end comes I'm just as dead. There will be an end to everything eventually. That's it! That's final. There is no "next time" or "afterward". When that end comes it will be as if none of us really were here to begin with. All the greatest achievements of humanity will be nothing, absolutely, positively nothing. It will be as if we were never really here to begin with.

Who was Socrates? Did he live a good life? Did he help mankind? There will be no one nor anything that will remember that Socrates ever existed. The end will come and there will be an eternity of nothing afterward. Once the end comes, it's forever.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:41 am**

chaz wyman wrote:
Gary Childress wrote:Well, I'm 44 years old. My parents are in their late 70s. My parents and I have always been very close. I lost my grandmother almost 10 years back. Of course she was suffering from alzeimers for many years so it was a slow loss, not so abrupt as the death of a close relative could be. Now I'm suffering from sleep apnea and my memory isn't all that great anymore. When I think of my own end being not too far off I really start to think of what was it all about? Life seems so incredibly short from my perspective right now. If we are simply a "flash in the pan" so to speak what difference does any of this really make. Maybe I'm just in a meloncholy mood right now. But inevitable death puts everything in an all new perspective for me.

I'm facing a life decision of continuing my philosophy education. It will be a big undertaking going back to school (albeit online classes). I sort of wonder to myself why I should even put forth the effort? I'm just going to die someday anyway. What's worse is I'll probably forget everything I learn within a few months anyway. What difference does it make how educated or uneducated I am? What difference does it make if I try to improve my life? There isn't that much more to go anyway. It seems like a wasted effort, all in vain. Yeah, more education will make me more "marketable". Is that what it's all about? Just doing what it takes to stay alive and prosperous a little longer. How depressing it all seems right now.
Is your aponea diagnosed, or do you just think you have it? There are some basic precautions you can take that will help. Loosing weight if you are fat is the most important. Change the regime of your pillows mattress etc. Most people use too many pillows - one firm one will do you. Blow your nose before bedtime and.or use menthol or Olbas oil to keep your passages clear. If it is a serious problem then get your tonsils removed - that will wake up your ideas for a couple of weeks!
If you think a philosophy education is going to make you more 'marketable' then you are choosing the wrong reason to study. You would do better to find something more vocational.

I have great news for you. None of this makes any difference on the grand scheme of things. So doing it and failing won't matter. Doing it and enjoying it for its own sake, you don't have to feel guilty about. And since you are going to die anyway - you might as well do it all whilst you still can. What is stopping you? Do you really want your entire life to be about the sleep/work/eat/TV/sleep cycle? round and round until you get feeble and die?

Just remember. Your death has ALWAYS been inevitable. So why should you be pissed off about it now? Why not wait a few more years. Why get pissed off at all? Do some study keep your brain alive!.

"Pissed" is a complete misunderstanding of everything I've written. There's a world of difference between melancholia and being pissed. Anyone who has ever been melancholy would readily spot the difference. Melancholia has nothing to do with being angry.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:00 am**

Gary Childress wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:
Gary Childress wrote:Well, I'm 44 years old. My parents are in their late 70s. My parents and I have always been very close. I lost my grandmother almost 10 years back. Of course she was suffering from alzeimers for many years so it was a slow loss, not so abrupt as the death of a close relative could be. Now I'm suffering from sleep apnea and my memory isn't all that great anymore. When I think of my own end being not too far off I really start to think of what was it all about? Life seems so incredibly short from my perspective right now. If we are simply a "flash in the pan" so to speak what difference does any of this really make. Maybe I'm just in a meloncholy mood right now. But inevitable death puts everything in an all new perspective for me.

I'm facing a life decision of continuing my philosophy education. It will be a big undertaking going back to school (albeit online classes). I sort of wonder to myself why I should even put forth the effort? I'm just going to die someday anyway. What's worse is I'll probably forget everything I learn within a few months anyway. What difference does it make how educated or uneducated I am? What difference does it make if I try to improve my life? There isn't that much more to go anyway. It seems like a wasted effort, all in vain. Yeah, more education will make me more "marketable". Is that what it's all about? Just doing what it takes to stay alive and prosperous a little longer. How depressing it all seems right now.
Is your aponea diagnosed, or do you just think you have it? There are some basic precautions you can take that will help. Loosing weight if you are fat is the most important. Change the regime of your pillows mattress etc. Most people use too many pillows - one firm one will do you. Blow your nose before bedtime and.or use menthol or Olbas oil to keep your passages clear. If it is a serious problem then get your tonsils removed - that will wake up your ideas for a couple of weeks!
If you think a philosophy education is going to make you more 'marketable' then you are choosing the wrong reason to study. You would do better to find something more vocational.

I have great news for you. None of this makes any difference on the grand scheme of things. So doing it and failing won't matter. Doing it and enjoying it for its own sake, you don't have to feel guilty about. And since you are going to die anyway - you might as well do it all whilst you still can. What is stopping you? Do you really want your entire life to be about the sleep/work/eat/TV/sleep cycle? round and round until you get feeble and die?

Just remember. Your death has ALWAYS been inevitable. So why should you be pissed off about it now? Why not wait a few more years. Why get pissed off at all? Do some study keep your brain alive!.
"Pissed" is a complete misunderstanding of everything I've written. There's a world of difference between melancholia and being pissed. Anyone who has ever been melancholy would readily spot the difference. Melancholia has nothing to do with being angry.

Let's face it - you are pissed off because the world does not conform to your wish of it.
Stop bleating and get a life!

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:03 am**

Gary Childress wrote:
RickLewis wrote:Cheer up me old mucker - things ain't so bad!

Clearly there are things and people that matter a great deal to you - you said yourself that you are very close to your parents. You ask what difference it will make if you improve your life: well, I'm sure it would make your parents happy and it would probably make you happier too. Isn't that good enough?

I suspect you are asking if it would "make a difference" from some objective, eternal point of view, such as the point of view of the universe as a whole, if you improve your life. Maybe not. Probably the "universe as a whole" just isn't the sort of thing that cares what anyone does. Don't take that personally! It isn't a negative reflection on your life if trees and mountains and stars don't care about you - it is just the way they are.
Put it this way. Suppose I continue my philosophy education. Suppose I learn a lot in it. I wonder how long it will be before I have forgotten almost everything I learned? I can't take it with me. What ultimate good is it to learn only to forget? Even now some words seem strange to me, like I've never seen them spelled this way before even though they are spelled correctly. My mind is slowly going on me. I wonder how much longer I have before a full blown stroke? Once upon a time it seemed fruitful to learn and develop. Now it seems like the time to learn and develop are passed. I feel like I should just hunker down and live out the rest of my life in peace. My productive years are numbered. Recently a family friend who also has sleep apnea developed alzeimers. Almost over night he lost track of who he was, who his wife was and just about anything else that once made him who he is. What a way to go. He's fortunate that he has a wife who will probably outlive him and be able to care for him. I don't have anyone to care for me when my folks are gone. No wife, no children. I'll probably be one of those cases where the neighbor notices my lawn hasn't been mowed in a month and they'll come in to find me dead and rotting in a chair or something.

It really makes me stop and wonder what all this was really for. I'm not going to be here. No relatives of mine are going to be here. What do I care about the world after I'm gone. The end is the end. It will come to us all and it will come to the planet and the universe eventually as well. Once the end comes what difference does anything before it make? I could have been a prince or a pauper, either way when the end comes I'm just as dead. There will be an end to everything eventually. That's it! That's final. There is no "next time" or "afterward". When that end comes it will be as if none of us really were here to begin with. All the greatest achievements of humanity will be nothing, absolutely, positively nothing. It will be as if we were never really here to begin with.

Who was Socrates? Did he live a good life? Did he help mankind? There will be no one nor anything that will remember that Socrates ever existed. The end will come and there will be an eternity of nothing afterward. Once the end comes, it's forever.

Stop moaning then! Why are you living at all?
Face the reality of suicide and you will then know if you have a reason to live. But if you are just going to throw back the life-lines people are giving you then it would seem that you are actually enjoying your state of being pissed off.
Dwell on your melancholia, you love it!

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:29 am**

Gary. Your posts would have been understandable 30 years ago. But not in 2011 CE.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:31 am**

I mean, thirty years ago you were 14. At that age you're supposed to go all Nick Cave and The Smiths. Grow up, man..

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:44 am**

What do I care about the world after I'm gone. The end is the end. It will come to us all and it will come to the planet and the universe eventually as well. Once the end comes what difference does anything before it make? I could have been a prince or a pauper, either way when the end comes I'm just as dead. There will be an end to everything eventually. That's it! That's final. There is no "next time" or "afterward". When that end comes it will be as if none of us really were here to begin with. All the greatest achievements of humanity will be nothing, absolutely, positively nothing. It will be as if we were never really here to begin with.

Perhaps you are suffering from the religion of atheism?

You seem to be assuming that death is final and that thus life has no meaning. You seem pretty certain that you know this. If this is your worldview, you are of course entitled to it, and it's not really our business to try to change you.

Speaking more generally about atheism, we can observe it's conclusions are based on nothing. We can observe that this worldview is every bit as much faith as any religion. We can observe that atheism apparently isn't ready to be honest about it's relationship with faith.

We can observe that this worldview has nothing much to offer folks at those moments in their life when they need it the most.

We can observe that many of atheism's most ardent advocates seem filled with negativity and cynicism long before their own personal encounter with mortality.

Is the problem disease and death?

Or is the problem our philosophy?

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:58 am**

Thundril wrote:I mean, thirty years ago you were 14. At that age you're supposed to go all Nick Cave and The Smiths. Grow up, man..

Some people take longer to grow up to the realities of their life.

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