Philosophy Now Forum

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I know I've created a better thread on Eugene Debs in the past but I feel inspired at this moment. I need to re-post.


This moment is perfect. Perfect in itself.

Just enjoy this thread with me. Don't feel obligated to reply.


Just enjoy, and move on. I totally understand.


Enjoy.



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Eugene Victor Debs (November 5, 1855 – October 20, 1926) was an American union leader, one of the founding members of the International Labor Union and the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), and several times the candidate of the Socialist Party of America for President of the United States.[2] Through his presidential candidacies, as well as his work with labor movements, Debs eventually became one of the best-known socialists living in the United States.

In the early part of his political career, Debs was a member of the Democratic Party. He was elected as a Democrat to the Indiana General Assembly in 1884. After working with several smaller unions, including the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen, Debs was instrumental in the founding of the American Railway Union (ARU), the nation's first industrial union. When the ARU struck the Pullman Palace Car Company over pay cuts, President Grover Cleveland used the United States Army to break the strike. As a leader of the ARU, Debs was later imprisoned for failing to obey an injunction against the strike.

Debs educated himself about socialism in prison and emerged to launch his career as the nation's most prominent socialist in the first decades of the 20th century. He ran as the Socialist Party's candidate for the presidency in 1900, 1904, 1908, 1912, and 1920, the last time from his prison cell.

Noted for his oratory, it was a speech denouncing American participation in World War I that led to his second arrest in 1918. He was convicted under the Espionage Act of 1917 and sentenced to a term of 10 years. President Warren G. Harding commuted his sentence in December 1921. Debs died in 1926 not long after being admitted to a sanatorium.








Love this guy.

LOVE this guy.


One of the bravest philosophers that has ever walked the earth.

This guy was amazing.

He ran for president while in prison and obtained something like 6% of the entire votes. Amazing.




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I can't add anything to his amazing life story so I will just add a few of Debs most famous quotes;


"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world. "
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization."
— Eugene Victor Debs

"I would not be a Moses to lead you into the Promised Land, because if I could lead you into it, someone else could lead you out of it."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I may not be able to say all I think, but I am not going to say anything I do not think."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I would rather a thousand times be a free soul in jail than to be a sycophant and coward in the streets."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Be true to yourself and you cannot be a traitor to any good cause on earth."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"The people can have anything they want, the only problem is they do not want anything."
— Eugene Victor Debs


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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.

I know I've created a better thread on Eugene Debs in the past but I feel inspired at this moment. I need to re-post.


This moment is perfect. Perfect in itself.

Just enjoy this thread with me. Don't feel obligated to reply.


Just enjoy, and move on. I totally understand.


Enjoy.



.................




Eugene Victor Debs (November 5, 1855 – October 20, 1926) was an American union leader, one of the founding members of the International Labor Union and the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), and several times the candidate of the Socialist Party of America for President of the United States.[2] Through his presidential candidacies, as well as his work with labor movements, Debs eventually became one of the best-known socialists living in the United States.

In the early part of his political career, Debs was a member of the Democratic Party. He was elected as a Democrat to the Indiana General Assembly in 1884. After working with several smaller unions, including the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen, Debs was instrumental in the founding of the American Railway Union (ARU), the nation's first industrial union. When the ARU struck the Pullman Palace Car Company over pay cuts, President Grover Cleveland used the United States Army to break the strike. As a leader of the ARU, Debs was later imprisoned for failing to obey an injunction against the strike.

Debs educated himself about socialism in prison and emerged to launch his career as the nation's most prominent socialist in the first decades of the 20th century. He ran as the Socialist Party's candidate for the presidency in 1900, 1904, 1908, 1912, and 1920, the last time from his prison cell.

Noted for his oratory, it was a speech denouncing American participation in World War I that led to his second arrest in 1918. He was convicted under the Espionage Act of 1917 and sentenced to a term of 10 years. President Warren G. Harding commuted his sentence in December 1921. Debs died in 1926 not long after being admitted to a sanatorium.








Love this guy.

LOVE this guy.


One of the bravest philosophers that has ever walked the earth.

This guy was amazing.

He ran for president while in prison and obtained something like 6% of the entire votes. Amazing.




...............................................



I can't add anything to his amazing life story so I will just add a few of Debs most famous quotes;


"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world. "
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization."
— Eugene Victor Debs

"I would not be a Moses to lead you into the Promised Land, because if I could lead you into it, someone else could lead you out of it."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I may not be able to say all I think, but I am not going to say anything I do not think."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"I would rather a thousand times be a free soul in jail than to be a sycophant and coward in the streets."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"Be true to yourself and you cannot be a traitor to any good cause on earth."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong."
— Eugene Victor Debs


"The people can have anything they want, the only problem is they do not want anything."
— Eugene Victor Debs


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Eugene Debs was a great communist. That's what made him human.
I know this for a fact. Like you, I too am communist. Hail Brother.

Bill,

What about Norman Thomas? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thomas

In your mind, is Thomas a viable competitor of Debs for the title of the greatest American socialist? Did you consider Thomas before you wrote this thread?

Compared to Debs, didn't Thomas leave a larger actual legacy in that many claims that he advocated were eventually enacted into law?

I remember reading an excellent biography about Thomas. Upon completion, I was an admirer.

Tom

tbieter wrote:In your mind, is Thomas a viable competitor of Debs for the title of the greatest American socialist?

And I thought that was Bernie Sanders

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I have never heard of Norman Thomas.


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I thank you for bringing this friend of labor to my attention.



I like;

Thomas graduated magna cum laude from Princeton University in 1905.

After some settlement work and a trip around the world, Thomas decided to follow in his father's footsteps and enrolled in Union Theological Seminary. He graduated from the seminary and was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1911.

Thomas frequently spoke on the difference between socialism and Communism, explaining the differences between the movement he represented and that of revolutionary Marxism.

His early admiration for the Russian Revolution subsequently turned into energetic anti-Communism.

Thomas failed to isolate himself from the rough and tumble internal factional politics of the Socialist Party, as his predecessor Debs had been able to do.

After 1945 Thomas sought to make the non-Communist left the vanguard of social reform, in collaboration with labor leaders like Walter Reuther.



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I am a unionist.

I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.


Organized Labor cannot exist in a Communist state.

Free, independent, legally recognized unions are illegal in Communist countries.


Organized Labor thrives in a Liberal Democracy.


The fact that Norman Thomas was influenced by Eugene Debs is my only interest.



Thank you for posting on my thread and thank you for bringing my attention to Norman Thomas.




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I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world.

~~~ Socrates as quoted by Plutarch ~~~












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"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world. "
~~~ Eugene Victor Debs ~~~






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"I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence."
— Eugene Victor Debs

That is socialist bullshit, pure and simple!

You missed his main title, Socialist!

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Adapted from Wikipedia:

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor



Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor is a classical political-economic argument, stating that in the advanced capitalist societies state policies assure that more resources flow to the rich than to the poor, for example in form of transfer payments. The term corporate welfare is widely used to describe the bestowal of favorable treatment to particular corporations by the government. One of the most commonly raised forms of criticism are statements that the capitalist political economy toward large corporations allows them to "privatize profits and socialize losses." The argument has been raised and cited on many occasions.


Andrew Young has been cited for calling the U.S. system “socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor”, and Martin Luther King, Jr., who was assassinated in 1968, frequently used this wording in his speeches. Since at least 1969, Gore Vidal has used the expression “free enterprise for the poor and socialism for the rich” to describe the U.S. economic policies. Vidal used it as well since the 1980s for expressing his critique of Reagonomics.


In winter 2006/2007, in response to criticism about oil imports from Venezuela, that country being under the leadership of Hugo Chávez, the founder and president of Citizens Energy Corporation Joseph P. Kennedy II countered with a critique of the U.S. system which he characterized as “a kind of socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor that leaves the most vulnerable out in the cold”. Also Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has become known for expressing to large audiences that America is now a land of “socialism for the rich and brutal capitalism for the poor”.


Economist Dean Baker expressed similar views in his book The Conservative Nanny State: How the Wealthy Use the Government to Stay Rich and Get Richer, in which he pointed out several different policy areas in which government intervention is essential to preserving and enhancing wealth in the hands of a few.


Also Noam Chomsky has criticized the way in which free market principles have been applied. He has argued that the wealthy use free-market rhetoric to justify imposing greater economic risk upon the lower classes, while being insulated from the rigours of the market by the political and economic advantages that such wealth affords.He remarked, "the free market is socialism for the rich—[free] markets for the poor and state protection for the rich."


Arguments along a similar line were raised in connection with the financial turmoil in 2008. With regard to the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Ron Blackwell, chief economist of AFL-CIO, used the expression “Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor” to characterize the system.In September 2008, the US Senator from Vermont, Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders said regarding the bailout of the U.S. financial system: “This is the most extreme example that I can recall of socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor”.The same month, economist Nouriel Roubini stated: “It is pathetic that Congress did not consult any of the many professional economists that have presented […] alternative plans that were more fair and efficient and less costly ways to resolve this crisis. This is again a case of privatizing the gains and socializing the losses; a bailout and socialism for the rich, the well-connected and Wall Street”.


Former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich adapted this phrase on The Daily Show on October 16, 2008: "We have socialism for the rich, and capitalism for everyone else."


The journalist John Pilger also included the phrase in his speech accepting Australia's human rights award, the Sydney Peace Prize, on 5th November 2009: "Democracy has become a business plan, with a bottom line for every human activity, every dream, every decency, every hope. The main parliamentary parties are now devoted to the same economic policies - socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor - and the same foreign policy of servility to endless war. This is not democracy. It is to politics what McDonalds is to food."



Vermont senator Bernie Sanders referenced the phrase during his eight-and-a-half-hour speech on the senate floor on December 10, 2010 against the continuation of Bush-era tax cuts, when speaking on the federal bailout of major financial institutions at a time when small-businesses were being denied loans.







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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.






Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor

Your true socialistic colors are beginning to show, and don't bother to deny it!

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Under Evensonomics, the political/economic imperative is an unemployment rate of zero percent, and it is incumbent upon the government to immediately accomplish this thru free-market capitalism, whatever the cost.

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The Contenders: Eugene Victor Debs



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