Philosophy Now Forum

i was a bridesmaid at a cousins wedding this saturday

my cousin is a successful professional beautiful independent and strong willed

she is marrying a walking texan stereotype whose stated views on proper roles of women would get a good reception in afghanistan yes he actually wore a string tie and shit kicking boots for his wedding

i asked her about this she told me that all feminist men a hypocrites who profess feminist beliefs in order to get laid

her man she said is kind never loses his temper and is forgiving of other peoples failings those are the things to look for in a man not ideology

what are your thoughts

I think you and your cousin were throwing ideas about in the way that people who are not philosophers do. If you had asked her why she thinks trying to get laid is incompatible with feminism, that might have led to an interesting discussion.

you are implying that philosophical thinking is superior to nonphilosophical thinking care to justify that assumption

LOL Call it a local tradition here ...

Kayla wrote: i asked her about this she told me that all feminist men a hypocrites who profess feminist beliefs in order to get laid

If we're defining feminism as a belief in the equality of the sexes then your cousin seems to believe that no men believe this and I would assume that all men believe themselves to be superior to women. Is that fair to say?

If that is what she believes then I think she's mistaken and is possibly just comfortable in, or used to, an environment where men are allowed to feel superior as long as they don't abuse it and are kind. It may also be that because she's successful she doesn't view feminism as an issue but that's just conjecture.

There are many reasons why men might ascribe to the idea that the sexes are, or should be, equal but one very good selfish one is that perhaps they care about their daughter's futures. Not all fathers want their daughters to get married, have kids and play the "good wife" you know.

Can men be feminists? Sure. I am one.

As for the hypocrisy angle, I suppose that for some men, particularly young men, getting laid is the main drive behind almost everything they do or say in the presence of a desirable female. I don't know if pretending to be a feminist would actually work. It doesn't seem like your cousin would fall for it, for instance. According to cliché, most women would go for a rich and powerful man, or even a macho type, rather than a feminist type.

Seriously, though, anybody who does not recognize inequality (not only gender inequality, but any kind of inequality) as wrong, is a hypocrite in my book.

it's interesting you posted that kayla, especially the part you posted

Kayla wrote:her man she said is kind never loses his temper and is forgiving of other peoples failings those are the things to look for in a man not ideology

because i just returned from the park with my son a few minutes ago and i met a man there. he just came up to me and started talking. he is the friendliest person, and laid back. he has a good job, is a single father, very very nice, no pretension or fakiness, we like some of the same things, etc. we talked for i think about 2 hours. before i left he asked me for my phone number.

i almost wanted to give it to him, but i didn't. i just wrote a long reply to this and lost it, and not able to redo it all right now, but will try to later. but anyways for now thanks for writing that and will try to add more later, thanks:)

Kayla wrote:
what are your thoughts

My thoughts are that it really doesn't matter whether or not a man is feminist or not. Who we love will determine whether or not we are pro/con men being feminists or "texan stereotypes."

The truth is one can't help who one falls in love with. Usually we justify the actions and beliefs of the one we are in love with. This is natural. It is also natural to demonize the same behavoir we once loved when we fall out of love. After all, there has to be a reason we fell out of love...and most people don't want that reason to be because they fell in love haphazardly and didn't really understand their own minds or hearts.

Anyway, it's nothing to worry about...if she stays in love she will find his sexist ways charming. If she falls out of love he will be an ass in her eyes. What will be will be.

I think a better way to look into the future and tell if he is indeed kind hearted is to pay attention to how he treats women he has no interest in or thinks are ugly. Is he cruel? Is he discourteous? If so then that is a good indication that is exactly how she will be treated if he should fall out of love with her.

But let's forget all of that and hope that their love remains pure forever! I am in a romantic mood.

Mazel tov!

artisticsolution wrote:I think a better way to look into the future and tell if he is indeed kind hearted is to pay attention to how he treats women he has no interest in or thinks are ugly. Is he cruel? Is he discourteous? If so then that is a good indication that is exactly how she will be treated if he should fall out of love with her.

lisa thats my cousin told me that the time she knew he was the one was when she saw his treatment of an ugly and incompetent waitress

he was very patient and polite and left her a big tip later saying that she obviously needs the money more than he does

i dont mean he said that to the waitress that would be rude

What do you and these people mean by the word "feminist" when you say who can or cannot be one?

Kayla wrote:...
my cousin is a successful professional beautiful independent and strong willed

...

her man she said is kind never loses his temper and is forgiving of other peoples failings those are the things to look for in a man not ideology

what are your thoughts

Would she feel the same if he told her his ideology was that a womens place was in the home caring for her man, keeping the place clean and not working? If she agrees then I'd guess she's not a feminist and just goes to show how even beautiful(?) successful professional women have a short grasp of political history.

Arising_uk wrote:

Kayla wrote:...
my cousin is a successful professional beautiful independent and strong willed

...

her man she said is kind never loses his temper and is forgiving of other peoples failings those are the things to look for in a man not ideology

what are your thoughts

Would she feel the same if he told her his ideology was that a womens place was in the home caring for her man, keeping the place clean and not working? If she agrees then I'd guess she's not a feminist and just goes to show how even beautiful(?) successful professional women have a short grasp of political history.

Hi Arising,
My husband told me when we first got married...before he understood what marrying me entailed...That I should be a stay at home mom...lol. I just let him know in no uncertain terms that that isn't how our marriage was going down and that I was going to continue working. He also tried to tell me that our children were going to be raised Jewish...to which I also replied 'No, they will be raised both our religions or just mine or none." I told him he could choose which one it was gonna be...lol.

I think he was like most men when they are young...still attached to the pretense of what it is to be a "man." A women helps a boy become a man...or more precisely...a man she can live with.

My point is, I was a feminist who fell in love with a chauvinist. Like I said, you can't help who you love but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave and submit. I love him but I also love myself and value my independent life.
I taught him that I have needs and desires the same as him. I like working as much as he does. I like coming and going when I please...just like he does. I like a clean house and a hot mean waiting for me when I got home from work just as much as he does. I don't think he comprehended that when we were younger. I think he just expected that all women liked to be housewives. I think he thought it was a kind thing to do for your wife...to give her the "easy job" of "only" having to cook and clan and take care of the kids...lol. I think he thought he was putting me on a pedestal....that is...until he got a taste of what it is like to be a housewife...lol.

I took my little male chauvinist and molded him with love into a man I could tolerate .

I think we make the mistake of viewing feminism as solely a woman's issue that has no positive effect for men. This is untrue and directly effects the men in our lives. As stated above not all fathers want their daughters to grow up to be dependent wives living a life of servitude but it goes further than that. Equal pay means higher family income and women's reproductive health means better options for family planning this is also part of sexual responsibility for both sexes. Men don't want to see their partners and family die because they did not have access to proper screening for breast and uterine caner that would have been detected and effectively treated. Equality in the home lessens the financial burden for men and increases their ability to be engaged in the family unit rather than and outsider viewed as a workhorse. Not many man are going to call themselves a feminist because in our society this challenges a man's masculinity however I think many men have a vested interest in the "feminist movement" and wholeheartedly support it.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

If you have to be a woman to be a feminist then I don't hold out much hope for the future of animal rights. Woof woof.

Rortabend wrote:If you have to be a woman to be a feminist then I don't hold out much hope for the future of animal rights. Woof woof.

I love this comment; how it drives the point home perfectly, whilst being funny too. Wish I had written it myself.