The Philosophy Now Forum

Let's suppose there is a God. And let's suppose that the Judeo/Christian Bible is the sacred words of God.

Should all Christians go to heaven? The Bible tells them they will, but I'm not seeing why there's anything special just for being a Christian. I mean, Christians go to church, then most return home and go about their daily lives, just as eagerly cheering for war, slavery, discrimination, and greed as anyone else, or otherwise participating in those institutions as much as anyone else. Why would that be a reason to go to heaven? Why would being a "Christian" in itself be of any tangible consequence? I mean, anyone can go to church and say, "I accept Jesus as my savior" once in a while when prompted. Nothing tangible is being done in the process. If the rest of us are going to Hell, then why shouldn't some Christians go to Hell as well? What have they tangibly done to deserve otherwise, any more so than the rest of us?

Who are you talking to Gary? Are you asking the Christians whether they believe they are saved, or are you asking the Muslims and Jews? Or the atheists?

lol

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:57 pm Who are you talking to Gary? Are you asking the Christians whether they believe they are saved, or are you asking the Muslims and Jews? Or the atheists?

lol

It's mostly a rhetorical question. Anyone and everyone can answer who wants to answer. What is your answer, or did you just come here to ask me who I'm talking to?

Ah! In what way is it “rhetorical”? Are you quoting from a speech you’ve made, or are you working it into a speech you’re going to make?

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:04 pm Ah! In what way is it “rhetorical”? Are you quoting from a speech you’ve made, or are you working it into a speech you’re going to make?

It's a provocation for others to give their thoughts. Isn't that what rhetorical questions are?

That's the question of whether Christians are saved by faith, works or faith and works.

And presumably God knows if they have real faith or they are just trying to scam Him.

phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:26 pm That's the question of whether Christians are saved by faith, works or faith and works.

And presumably God knows if they have real faith or they are just trying to scam Him.

And what exactly is a "work" of faith? What is an example of a "work" of faith?

phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:26 pm That's the question of whether Christians are saved by faith, works or faith and works.

And presumably God knows if they have real faith or they are just trying to scam Him.

Sorry, I first mistook the word "or" as "of".

So what does faith have to do with anything? How does faith factor into anything having to do with morality? Is just believing God exists some kind of great moral deed?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:12 pm
It's a provocation for others to give their thoughts. Isn't that what rhetorical questions are?

Er … no. That’s what an ordinary question is. So you want others to give you their thoughts? What do you think Christians will be inclined to think? And what do you think the avowedly non-Christians will think?

I think you know their answers already, don’t you?

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 11:49 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:12 pm
It's a provocation for others to give their thoughts. Isn't that what rhetorical questions are?

Er … no. That’s what an ordinary question is. So you want others to give you their thoughts?

Well, I thought that was the purpose of rhetorical questions. Apparently I'm wrong, then.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:31 pm Let's suppose there is a God. And let's suppose that the Judeo/Christian Bible is the sacred words of God.

Should all Christians go to heaven? The Bible tells them they will, but I'm not seeing why there's anything special just for being a Christian.

There's nothing special... it's just what they like to think.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:31 pmI mean, Christians go to church, then most return home and go about their daily lives, just as eagerly cheering for war, slavery, discrimination, and greed as anyone else, or otherwise participating in those institutions as much as anyone else.

Right.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:31 pmWhy would being a "Christian" in itself be of any tangible consequence?

It's not. And claiming to be a Christian is far more for identity than truth. Serving one's identity is easily a trap for delusional self-righteousness. Whereas truth can come from/through ANYONE! Salvation isn't necessary, and truth isn't tied/restricted to a particular platform -- those are the biggest loads of crap that Christianity peddles. They really ought to be held accountable for all of the deception and brainwashing... especially of children, as it's child abuse to fill the beautiful minds of children with a bunch of manmade nonsense.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:31 pmI mean, anyone can go to church and say, "I accept Jesus as my savior" once in a while when prompted.

Yes, just like a president can absurdly claim to be a Christian while doing everything opposite of that, and most Christians just automatically believe him (with no discernment or awareness) and they raise him up like an idol. Talk about a tragic display of ignorant intoxication! Many are such easy and gullible enablers for anyone masquerading around in their robes because they can't admit that something dark could slither amongst them! Yet, that is exactly where it comes from and is essential to be maintained for their beliefs!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 9:31 pm Let's suppose there is a God. And let's suppose that the Judeo/Christian Bible is the sacred words of God.

Should all Christians go to heaven? The Bible tells them they will, but I'm not seeing why there's anything special just for being a Christian.

I would call that a serious case of discrimination. Isn't one Chosen People already enough! Have they now forfeited the honor to be reinvested in Christians? Seriously! I do believe Jesus' old man would have something to say about that! In that household there rules only one Master.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:46 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2026 10:26 pm That's the question of whether Christians are saved by faith, works or faith and works.

And presumably God knows if they have real faith or they are just trying to scam Him.

Sorry, I first mistook the word "or" as "of".

So what does faith have to do with anything? How does faith factor into anything having to do with morality? Is just believing God exists some kind of great moral deed?

One needs faith to pick a path and stay on it, to stay steadfast and not to give into temptations.

.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2026 11:46 am Isn't one Chosen People already enough! Have they now forfeited the honor to be reinvested in Christians?

GREAT point!