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A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 11:34 am
by Gary Childress
A democracy is only as good as those who vote in it. And if those who vote are not good, then the democracy is not a good one. And right now we have a lying, conniving, thinly veiled grifter in the White House. Those who voted against him knew better. Those who voted for him, did not. But those who don't know better cannot vote based on what they do not know, the media has failed them. It's not their fault.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 12:05 pm
by phyllo
To be fair, some of those voters thought Trump was an honest man.
He outright lied during the campaign.
They didn't get what they voted for.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 12:55 pm
by Impenitent
promises of utopia...
all we need is the proper government to give us everything and all you need to do is vote...
-Imp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 1:34 pm
by Gary Childress
phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 12:05 pm
To be fair, some of those voters thought Trump was an honest man.
He outright lied during the campaign.
They didn't get what they voted for.
The sad thing is that some still stick by him even now. I suppose if they were good people, they wouldn't feel drawn to a corrupt man and his administration.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:14 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 11:34 am
A democracy is only as good as those who vote in it.
No, a democracy is
determined by those who vote in it. Whether the result is good or bad is perspectival. If your party won, you're happy with it; if it lost, you're not. That's democracy.
The only "failure of democracy" is when the majority vote is not honoured or is subverted in some way.
But what do you mean by "democracy," when you use the term, Gary? You clearly don't mean "a free vote of all constituents." If you did then you'd have no complaint. So what are you thinking constitutes a "democracy"?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:15 pm
by Gary Childress
A demagogue is a political leader who gains power by exploiting emotions, prejudices, fears, and ignorance, rather than using rational argument. They typically use simplistic, emotive rhetoric and false promises to incite the "common people" against elites or outsiders. The term originates from the Greek dēmagōgós (people + leading).
Key Characteristics and Tactics
Scapegoating: Blaming specific groups for societal problems.
Fearmongering: Creating panic to make the public rely on them for protection.
Simplistic Solutions: Offering easy answers to complex issues.
Attacking Institutions: Challenging the press, courts, and democratic norms.
Charisma & Aggression: Using dramatic, often vulgar, oratorical skills to charm followers and mock opponents.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:15 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:14 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 11:34 am
A democracy is only as good as those who vote in it.
No, a democracy is
determined by those who vote in it. Whether the result is good or bad is perspectival. If your party won, you're happy with it; if it lost, you're not. That's democracy.
But what do you mean by "democracy," when you use the term, Gary? You clearly don't mean "a free vote of all constituents." If you did then you'd have no complaint. So what are you thinking constitutes a "democracy"?
You're being relativistic.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:16 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:14 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 11:34 am
A democracy is only as good as those who vote in it.
No, a democracy is
determined by those who vote in it. Whether the result is good or bad is perspectival. If your party won, you're happy with it; if it lost, you're not. That's democracy.
But what do you mean by "democracy," when you use the term, Gary? You clearly don't mean "a free vote of all constituents." If you did then you'd have no complaint. So what are you thinking constitutes a "democracy"?
You're being relativistic.
No, I'm asking a question.
What do
you mean when you use the word "democracy"? I really would like to understand your view.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:17 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:14 pm
No, a democracy is determined by those who vote in it. Whether the result is good or bad is perspectival. If your party won, you're happy with it; if it lost, you're not. That's democracy.
But what do you mean by "democracy," when you use the term, Gary? You clearly don't mean "a free vote of all constituents." If you did then you'd have no complaint. So what are you thinking constitutes a "democracy"?
You're being relativistic.
No, I'm asking a question.
What do
you mean when you use the word "democracy"? I really would like to understand your view.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:29 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:16 pm
No, I'm asking a question.
What do
you mean when you use the word "democracy"? I really would like to understand your view.
That's not relativism. That's just how democracy works.
Did you think you had any reason to suppose you'd like the outcome of every vote? Is "democracy" only what happens when Gary gets what Gary expects? C'mon, dude: if you believe in democracy, you have to accept
two outcomes (at least), not just the one you like. If it's only ever one, then what you have cannot be democracy.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:34 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:29 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:16 pm
No, I'm asking a question.
What do
you mean when you use the word "democracy"? I really would like to understand your view.
That's not relativism. That's just how democracy works.
Did you think you had any reason to suppose you'd like the outcome of every vote? Is "democracy" only what happens when Gary gets what Gary expects? C'mon, dude: if you believe in democracy, you have to accept
two outcomes (at least), not just the one you like. If it's only ever one, then what you have cannot be democracy.
So it is not a failure of democracy if a demagogue is elected? Or are you still optimistic about the Trump administration?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:39 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:34 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:29 pm
That's not relativism. That's just how democracy works.
Did you think you had any reason to suppose you'd like the outcome of every vote? Is "democracy" only what happens when Gary gets what Gary expects? C'mon, dude: if you believe in democracy, you have to accept
two outcomes (at least), not just the one you like. If it's only ever one, then what you have cannot be democracy.
So it is not a failure of democracy if a demagogue is elected? Or are you still optimistic about the Trump administration?
Gary, the guy hasn't even had four years, his democratic term. Start complaining when he declares himself emperor and cancels elections. Three more years from now, you'll have a case, if it happens.
Until then, all you've got is that you think the guy from the wrong party won. And if that's all you've got, you don't like democracy. It's that simple.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:45 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:34 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:29 pm
That's not relativism. That's just how democracy works.
Did you think you had any reason to suppose you'd like the outcome of every vote? Is "democracy" only what happens when Gary gets what Gary expects? C'mon, dude: if you believe in democracy, you have to accept
two outcomes (at least), not just the one you like. If it's only ever one, then what you have cannot be democracy.
So it is not a failure of democracy if a demagogue is elected? Or are you still optimistic about the Trump administration?
Gary, the guy hasn't even had four years, his democratic term. Start complaining when he declares himself emperor and cancels elections. Three more years from now, you'll have a case, if it happens.
Until then, all you've got is that you think the guy from the wrong party won. And if that's all you've got, you don't like democracy. It's that simple.
Still defending Trump. Is Biden still the anti-Christ? Would you suggest we should have given Harris four years to get things right? Or what would Trump have to do to qualify as a demagogue to you? Many of us saw this coming. Chomsky had it pegged on the nose when he expressed incredulity that people had voted for a "wild man" back in 2018.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:47 pm
by phyllo
Gary, the guy hasn't even had four years, his democratic term. Start complaining when he declares himself emperor and cancels elections.
One has to start complaining before that happens, while one still has some power to prevent it.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:52 pm
by Gary Childress
phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 2:47 pm
Gary, the guy hasn't even had four years, his democratic term. Start complaining when he declares himself emperor and cancels elections.
One has to start complaining before that happens, while one still has some power to prevent it.
Thank you for a voice of reason.