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Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 6:25 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Recently, Youtube philosophy dude Kane Baker discussed a blog post by Colin McGinn (formerly of UCL and Oxford fame before a bit of a #meetoo thing happened, so now he writes blogs)
You can find the almost hour long Youtube video here
Or the significantly shorter blog post here, I'll put in quotes in a follow up post.

McGinn's blog post is presumably tongue in cheek, and Kane B presumably understands that, but he went ahead and treated the whole thing with some degree of seriousness, and arrived at a very unexpected conclusion which I shan't spoil other than to say that he doesn't end up proposing himself as the greatest ever.

It all comes down to how you select criteria of course. With the OG argument ruling out Plato and other ancients because they only had access to ancient writings and not to modern ones which reduces their expertise, so it turns out that the ideal philosopher is modern enough to have a great deal of knowledge about the history of philosophy, and must have written many papers on a wide range etc...

But of course, there's one great resource which was not available to Plato because he was dead when it was created. But McGinn and Kane B are alive and they choose not to access it. More fool them I say. That resource is of course the Philosophy Now forums. Where else can you find the guy who will prove God exists in order to win an argument about whether taxation is theft? Nowhere. Where else can you read the works of EggnogJoe7 and Advocate? Nowhere. Where can you find out that Ken time-travelled here to learn out how to communicate with humans and become the all-Father age? Or where might Roydop answer the most important question of all time... or whatever shit VA doing these days...?

We should work this all out. The criteria presented by Kane Baker are....
  • Expertise, specifically expertise in philosophical subject matter such as the arguments that have been presented in the past and the counters to them.
  • Quality and clarity of writing (no mention of using AI to do the writing), it seems we are docking points for being overly gnomic and obtuse. If your followers have to write your main idea with both upper and lower cases, that's a bad sign for mist Dasein/dasein
  • Breadth of writing, no narrow furrows here please.
  • Quantity of writings.
  • Originality (McGinn wanted "rightness" but Baker argues that this is not measurable)
  • Argumentative sophistication, which surely speaks for itself.
  • Openness, a willingness to argue matters that lie outside your own system that you might have created for your own narrow interests.
If I were to nominate for instance one of my favourite modern philosophy dudes, that would be Simon Blackburn, author of books ranging from moral epistemology to phil of language, which is quite broad. Creator of quasi-realism in the field of moral philosophy which is fairly original. The arguments for that quasi-realism are extremely sophisticated but his works are clearly written and highly comprehendible.

But can that compare to Immanuel Can. The master of everything who can prove that God exists and agrees with himself whenever his political views are disagreed with. Or could it stack up against VA, who always knows that if you get 1000 experts to make a list of all the bad things in the world, it would be the same list VA would make all by himself?

So... who's really the Best Philosopher Ever? I turn the question over to the denizens of PN, the only people with access to all the information needed to answer the question.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 6:27 pm
by FlashDangerpants
As promised, here's the case McGinn makes for himself to be the best philosopher ever
https://colinmcginn.net/best-philosopher-ever/
Colin McGinn wrote: Who is the best philosopher that ever lived? I am going to argue that I am. This claim may be met with some incredulity: surely I don’t believe I’m a better philosopher than Plato or Aristotle or Descartes or Kant or Russell! Actually I am claiming that, but the claim is not as outrageous as it may sound, because many contemporary philosophers are superior to the great figures of the past. The reason for this is that I (and many others) have absorbed the teachings of these great thinkers: we have learned from the philosophers who went before. Later philosophers add to the teachings of earlier philosophers (and sometimes subtract from them). Descartes had access to Plato, but Plato didn’t have access to Descartes—so Descartes is greater. The claim is not that Descartes is more original or creative than Plato; it is that he knew more, because of his knowledge of Plato and of later intellectual developments. Who is the greatest physicist of all time? Not Newton or Galileo, because they didn’t have access to later developments; in fact, most living physicists are superior to Newton, precisely because they are the beneficiaries of Newton and Einstein (et al). Not as original, to be sure, but better equipped, more knowledgeable. We may stand on the shoulders of giants and not ourselves be giants, but there is no disputing that we can see further than them—we are simply taller. Knowledge progresses. So we can ignore the question of whether any living or recently deceased philosopher is better than some great dead philosopher—which would be hard to decide anyway if we are intent on focusing on creativity. We can assume that many later philosophers are philosophically superior to those who came before—including me. The same is true for artists and novelists: they have absorbed the past and can go beyond it. Later practitioners are generally more accomplished than earlier ones, partly because of the earlier ones. Is Aristotle superior to Plato? Probably, but remember that he was taught by Plato. Expertise is cumulative.

So the question should be whether I am superior to any more or less contemporary rival. Here is where things get interesting (but touchy). I will include here all philosophers from this century and the previous one—Frege, Russell, Wittgenstein, Quine, etc. We need to establish some criteria: by what test can we measure philosophical superiority? I suggest four criteria: quality of writing, breadth, quantity, and rightness. First, quality of writing: who is the best writer? We can divide the question into two, concerning clarity and literary style. I venture to suggest that I am the clearest philosophical writer who has ever lived—in fact I have heard this said my whole professional life (“You are so clear!”). For the evidence take a look at my writing: it is clearer than Frege, Wittgenstein (!), and Quine, to mention a few. But aren’t there other philosophical writers who are just as clear as me—say, Russell and Kripke? Actually I think not, but I can’t hope to establish that here (I agree they are relativelyclear). There are obscurities in Russell, and Kripke is not without his puzzling passages. Still, there is the second question—literary style. Here I will cite the fact that I have written two novels (as well as short stories, poetry, and songs) and that I have an intensely literary consciousness. I doubt that any other philosopher has studied the writings of Nabokov as closely as I have, as well as other great stylists (Jane Austen, Martin Amis). Russell was a fine writer stylistically, but have you ever read his fiction? It is stilted at best. Even the best philosophical writers lack much in the way of literary flair; they don’t even make the effort (I’m not counting Sartre or Iris Murdoch). But even when they do, as with Quine, there is a lack of clarity at crucial points. It is the combination of clarity and style that sets me apart: I write like a scientist and a novelist, because I have trained myself in both (I was always good at both mathematics and English when I was at school). So by this criterion I am looking like a strong contender for the title of best philosopher ever. But it isn’t the only criterion: what about breadth? It is noteworthy that the other philosophers I have cited are not very broad: they made their mark in specific areas of the subject—language, logic, epistemology, metaphysics. But I have written in almost every area of philosophy, including ethics and even aesthetics (mainly philosophy of literature). I have two books in ethics and many articles (most written over the last several years). I have done a lot in philosophy of mind, covering virtually every topic there is, but also in epistemology, metaphysics, language, philosophical logic, philosophy of science, meta-philosophy, Wittgenstein, and even philosophy of sport. I think I am clearly the most versatile and wide-ranging philosopher on the planet: Russell doesn’t even come close let alone Quine or Kripke (or even Nagel). That is just a fact. As to quantity, again I come out ahead: about twenty books, hundreds of articles, innumerable book reviews (I am clearly the most prolific philosophical book reviewer living or dead). Since I retired ten years ago I have had time to indulge my appetite for writing; the result is about five hundred articles, mainly published on my blog, totaling over two thousand pages. I have too much material to publish! I have written approximately two papers a week for the last six or seven years—finished, polished pieces (though short). No one else comes close to that. So judging by the criteria of quality of writing, breadth, and quantity, I would appear to be the leading contender within the time frame we are considering.

But what about rightness—isn’t that the acid test? I agree that it is, but now we leave the realm of fact and enter the realm of opinion. Please don’t get me wrong: I don’t think there is any serious doubt that there is more truth in my philosophical work than in anyone else’s—so don’t accuse me of undue modesty! But the same is true of every other philosopher, justifiably or otherwise: everyone thinks his views are incontrovertibly true. Of course this is obviously false, but human nature etc. However, in my own case I think I have good grounds for my opinion, because I know the effort I put into developing my views and I am very careful in what I write (also smart people tend to agree with me). But I don’t want to rest my case on that personal conviction. What I would say is that nowadays very few people would subscribe to the doctrines of such historical luminaries as Frege, Russell, Wittgenstein, Quine, and others. It is true that other potential rivals for the coveted title—Kripke, Strawson, Nagel, Fodor, Searle, and others–also contain a good deal of truth; but they don’t do as well on the other dimensions I have cited. It’s the whole package you have to look at. Neither should you be swayed by “impact”: that is notoriously fallible, historically conditioned, and audience-dependent. Quine had a large impact for a variety of reasons (his being at Harvard one of them), but he falls short in clarity, breadth, and quantity, let alone rightness. Popularity is not the measure of excellence. Indeed, one might even suspect that philosophical accomplishment is inversely proportional to impact (I personally think there is very little of lasting merit in Wittgenstein). I do well on the rightness criterion precisely because I don’t make outlandish meretricious claims; I tend to keep it boring, pedestrian even. I hate to be wrong, so I avoid it at all costs. That is why I don’t tend to change my mind much as far as my publications are concerned (family resemblance is about the only exception I can think of—I used to like the idea, now I don’t). Am I interesting? Yes, I think I’m pretty interesting, as reaction to my work suggests; but I don’t get that much published disagreement because it’s hard to find any holes in what I say (it’s too carefully considered). Not many people seem to agree with my mysterian leanings, but at least they find it interesting, to judge from audience response surveys. But I don’t try to be interesting for its own sake; I try to be right. Bear in mind, too, that I have written books on film and Shakespeare (as well as an intellectual autobiography and an athletic one); I don’t know of any other philosopher with my main academic interests who has done anything like that. And that is really the essence of the matter: I am not limited to a narrow range of professional interests within which I exclusively labor; I range much more freely and widely than other philosophers have done. This is why I am the best philosopher who has ever lived. Some have done good work within a relatively narrow domain, perhaps better than me (but let me beware of false modesty!), but none has ventured so far afield, or done it with such success. How good do I feel about this? Not all that much, strangely (one could always do better), but it does make me shake my head over my current situation.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 6:52 pm
by accelafine
Which proves once again that you should never put anyone on a pedestal, especially not horny men in positions of power who think young women (or young men) are their personal playthings.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 7:51 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Yup. I saw something about Epstein and Chomsky today, maybe don't tell Gary.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 8:21 pm
by accelafine
As much as I can't stand the man I can't find anything about him preying on young women (which is surprising in itself). Epstein was clearly a very charming man who had a lot of friends (and some very dangerous ones, evidently).

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 8:46 pm
by Impenitent
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 6:25 pm ...
So... who's really the Best Philosopher Ever? I turn the question over to the denizens of PN, the only people with access to all the information needed to answer the question.
I'd say Sew Crates; although, he didn't write much ... followed closely by Sgt. Shultz (Nazi prison guard on Hogan's Heroes) ... "I know nothing..."

-Imp

edited

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 10:57 pm
by accelafine
I'm sure he wouldn't be uneducated enough to say 'nothink'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HblPucwN-m0

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:43 am
by Gary Childress
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 7:51 pm Yup. I saw something about Epstein and Chomsky today, maybe don't tell Gary.
Too late. What did you see regarding Epstein and Chomsky?

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:45 am
by accelafine
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:43 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 7:51 pm Yup. I saw something about Epstein and Chomsky today, maybe don't tell Gary.
Too late. What did you see regarding Epstein and Chomsky?
Apparently they were friends. Stop the presses :roll:

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:14 am
by Gary Childress
accelafine wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:45 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:43 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 7:51 pm Yup. I saw something about Epstein and Chomsky today, maybe don't tell Gary.
Too late. What did you see regarding Epstein and Chomsky?
Apparently they were friends. Stop the presses :roll:
Yeah, I just read a little about it from The Guardian. That's interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but everyone who's ever been a target of Chomsky's criticism is probably having a field day with it. I had a short email exchange with Chomsky once. He seemed very friendly and down to Earth. I can see where he might have been contacted by Epstein and probably entertained Epstein's correspondence with him if it was friendly. Who knows, maybe Chomsky had a secret life few of us know about. Very little surprises me anymore.

As far as Chomsky on the opposite sex, I saw a statement from him some time ago where he had some critical things to say about a few beliefs of some of the feminist movement and its effects on the "working class". He seemed at the time to think portions of the feminist movement had come to a point where they were alienating ordinary working people.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:27 am
by accelafine
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:14 am
accelafine wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:45 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:43 am

Too late. What did you see regarding Epstein and Chomsky?
Apparently they were friends. Stop the presses :roll:
Yeah, I just read a little about it from The Guardian. That's interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but everyone who's ever been a target of Chomsky's criticism is probably having a field day with it. I had a short email exchange with Chomsky once. He seemed very friendly and down to Earth. I can see where he might have been contacted by Epstein and probably entertained Epstein's correspondence with him if it was friendly. Who knows, maybe Chomsky had a secret life few of us know about. Very little surprises me anymore.

As far as Chomsky on the opposite sex, I saw a statement from him some time ago where he had some critical things to say about a few beliefs of some of the feminist movement and its effects on the "working class". He seemed at the time to think portions of the feminist movement had come to a point where they were alienating ordinary working people.
Why would I give a rat's arse what chumpsky thinks about 'feminists'? I would be very surprised if he wasn't a sleazebag. I'm just saying there's no evidence for that at this time.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:33 am
by Gary Childress
accelafine wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:27 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 3:14 am
accelafine wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:45 am

Apparently they were friends. Stop the presses :roll:
Yeah, I just read a little about it from The Guardian. That's interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but everyone who's ever been a target of Chomsky's criticism is probably having a field day with it. I had a short email exchange with Chomsky once. He seemed very friendly and down to Earth. I can see where he might have been contacted by Epstein and probably entertained Epstein's correspondence with him if it was friendly. Who knows, maybe Chomsky had a secret life few of us know about. Very little surprises me anymore.

As far as Chomsky on the opposite sex, I saw a statement from him some time ago where he had some critical things to say about a few beliefs of some of the feminist movement and its effects on the "working class". He seemed at the time to think portions of the feminist movement had come to a point where they were alienating ordinary working people.
Why would I give a rat's arse what chumpsky thinks about 'feminists'? I would be very surprised if he wasn't a sleazebag. I'm just saying there's no evidence for that at this time.
I don't know. I just felt like conveying something I had learned about Chomsky years ago that I think is interesting. Chomsky has also been critical of "Post Modernism" because he thinks they are mostly about posturing and have very little of relevance to say. I happen to be familiar with a lot of things Chomsky has stated. Not everything but many things.

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 4:28 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Philosophy-proper is defined as:
Philosophy [seeking of wisdom] is a fundamental tool of life to optimize the well-being and flourishing of the individual[s] and that humanity at the present and more so towards the future.

The etymological origin of philosophy is 'wisdom' as we should stick to it as intended within reality.
The progress of human of human cognition is common sense, experience, knowledge, intelligence, reason and in combination of all these is 'wisdom' which is not so active in the present but its potential need to be expedited towards the future.
  • Wisdom, also known as sapience, is the ability to apply knowledge, experience, and good judgment to navigate life's complexities. It is often associated with insight, discernment, and ethics in decision-making. Throughout history, wisdom has been regarded as a key virtue in philosophy, religion, and psychology, representing the ability to understand and respond to reality in a balanced and thoughtful manner. Unlike intelligence, which primarily concerns problem-solving and reasoning, wisdom involves a deeper comprehension of human nature, moral principles, and the long-term consequences of actions. WIKI
Based on the above and potential contribution to wisdom in the future, the greatest philosopher of all times is Immanuel Kant who had combined sensibility, experience, understanding [intellectual], pure reason, rational reason, and wisdom within a system of the rest to sustain perpetual peace in the future.

The second would be Buddha who provided an effective philosophy and a Life's Problem Solving Techniques, i.e. the diagnostic 4TN and Strategic 8FP.
Buddhism's 4NT-8FP is a Life Problem Solving Technique.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25193

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:00 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 4:28 am Philosophy-proper is defined as:
That's so funny, thank you for playing.

Somebody so obsessed with ordering lists of things as yourself must have considered his own place in that sequence.... are you being all humble and putting yourself 7th, just behind Plato but ahead of Hume?

Re: Best Philosopher Ever

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:01 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:43 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 7:51 pm Yup. I saw something about Epstein and Chomsky today, maybe don't tell Gary.
Too late. What did you see regarding Epstein and Chomsky?
I just saw there was a Guardian headline, I didn't stop to look at the content because I find their site annoying.