Philosophy Now Forum

Penny for the Guy, penny for the Guy...

That's what we used to say when we were little, going round the local houses, dragging round an extremely shoddily made effigy of Guy Fawkes, basically just an old shirt and trousers stuffed with newspapers, trying to extort money from people. Usually more than a penny, of course, and I don't know what we'd have done if someone had just given us 1p. Inflation, eh? And then later we'd burn the effigy in our back garden on a bonfire, accompanied by fireworks and baked potatoes, with my brother usually doing something really stupid, such as throwing a banger at me and shouting "Catch!" like he did one year. It wasn't actually lit, thankfully.

Do kids do things like this any more, with their families?

A horrible 'celebration' of a young man being horrifically tortured for days until he eventually died after slow hanging (without actually killing him) castration and disemboweling. The only reason it's celebrated is that the King made it a criminal offence for people to NOT celebrate it. Unfortunately the English brought this horrible custom here, and now we have to put up with the incessant explosions that drive our pets insane--and it goes on for months!
I resent being forced to think about that young man and his horrific end every year.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 9:20 am A horrible 'celebration' of a young man being horrifically tortured for days until he eventually died after slow hanging (without actually killing him) castration and disemboweling. The only reason it's celebrated is that the King made it a criminal offence for people to NOT celebrate it. Unfortunately the English brought this horrible custom here, and now we have to put up with the incessant explosions that drive our pets insane--and it goes on for months!
I resent being forced to think about that young man and his horrific end every year.

It's also, I think, because it happened to be so close to the ancient festival of Samhain (Halloween) which was traditionally celebrated with bonfires. The two things merged.

We still have loads of fireworks going off for a few weeks, but many of these are because of Divali, which also seems to have merged with it.

I certainly agree that Guy Fawkes has been unfairly maligned over the years.

It's always been about Guy Fawkes and his dreadful end. It's a revolting 'celebration' anyway. Have you read 'The heaven tree' trilogy by Edith Pargeter? It goes into detail about the disgusting practice but the books are wonderful and sensitively written despite that.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 9:57 am It's always been about Guy Fawkes and his dreadful end. It's a revolting 'celebration' anyway. Have you read 'The heaven tree' trilogy by Edith Pargeter? It goes into detail about the disgusting practice but the books are wonderful and sensitively written despite that.

I haven't read those, but having just Googled them, they appear to be set in and around medieval Wales, as are some of the works of one of my favourite authors, Jane Louise Curry.

The Gunpowder Plot heralded a century of religious unrest and persecution in England, which included most of the famous witch trials, even spreading to the colonies (e.g. Salem). James I himself was notoriously anti-witchcraft, having written books on the subject. After him, things only became worse, as England slid inexorably towards civil war and revolution.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 12:03 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 9:57 am It's always been about Guy Fawkes and his dreadful end. It's a revolting 'celebration' anyway. Have you read 'The heaven tree' trilogy by Edith Pargeter? It goes into detail about the disgusting practice but the books are wonderful and sensitively written despite that.

I haven't read those, but having just Googled them, they appear to be set in and around medieval Wales, as are some of the works of one of my favourite authors, Jane Louise Curry.

The Gunpowder Plot heralded a century of religious unrest and persecution in England, which included most of the famous witch trials, even spreading to the colonies (e.g. Salem). James I himself was notoriously anti-witchcraft, having written books on the subject. After him, things only became worse, as England slid inexorably towards civil war and revolution.

Perhaps it's heading the way of civil war again (or the modern equivalent). There's certainly plenty of civil unrest. Charles looks as if he's on his last legs. The monarchy has lost all its mystique-- and the mystery and magic was really the whole point of it. Without it everyone can see what inadequate, weak individuals they really are. Social media is the modern equivalent of blood-lusting mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. Charles would have been in fear of losing his head a few hundred years ago.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 6:36 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 12:03 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 9:57 am It's always been about Guy Fawkes and his dreadful end. It's a revolting 'celebration' anyway. Have you read 'The heaven tree' trilogy by Edith Pargeter? It goes into detail about the disgusting practice but the books are wonderful and sensitively written despite that.

I haven't read those, but having just Googled them, they appear to be set in and around medieval Wales, as are some of the works of one of my favourite authors, Jane Louise Curry.

The Gunpowder Plot heralded a century of religious unrest and persecution in England, which included most of the famous witch trials, even spreading to the colonies (e.g. Salem). James I himself was notoriously anti-witchcraft, having written books on the subject. After him, things only became worse, as England slid inexorably towards civil war and revolution.

Perhaps it's heading the way of civil war again (or the modern equivalent). There's certainly plenty of civil unrest. Charles looks as if he's on his last legs. The monarchy has lost all its mystique-- and the mystery and magic was really the whole point of it. Without it everyone can see what inadequate, weak individuals they really are. Social media is the modern equivalent of blood-lusting mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. Charles would have been in fear of losing his head a few hundred years ago.

Charles has consistently sided with the enemies of the English people, and there are a surprisingly large number of people online calling for a new Cromwell to arise and scrap the monarchy, along with all it represents. I think I'm starting to agree with them.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:01 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 6:36 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 12:03 pm

I haven't read those, but having just Googled them, they appear to be set in and around medieval Wales, as are some of the works of one of my favourite authors, Jane Louise Curry.

The Gunpowder Plot heralded a century of religious unrest and persecution in England, which included most of the famous witch trials, even spreading to the colonies (e.g. Salem). James I himself was notoriously anti-witchcraft, having written books on the subject. After him, things only became worse, as England slid inexorably towards civil war and revolution.

Perhaps it's heading the way of civil war again (or the modern equivalent). There's certainly plenty of civil unrest. Charles looks as if he's on his last legs. The monarchy has lost all its mystique-- and the mystery and magic was really the whole point of it. Without it everyone can see what inadequate, weak individuals they really are. Social media is the modern equivalent of blood-lusting mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. Charles would have been in fear of losing his head a few hundred years ago.

Charles has consistently sided with the enemies of the English people, and there are a surprisingly large number of people online calling for a new Cromwell to arise and scrap the monarchy, along with all it represents. I think I'm starting to agree with them.

All those magnificent estates that actually BELONG to the British people and which the royals have hogged for themselves would need to be made public reserves and museums. It would be terrible if they were demolished and covered in nasty housing estates. I imagine though that tourism would decline dramatically for a while if the monarchy was dismantled-- so it's probably not going to happen any time soon. I don't think it will be long before William and whatshername take over anyway.
Cromwell stole my ancestors' land. I think I should demand it back

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:33 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:01 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 6:36 pm

Perhaps it's heading the way of civil war again (or the modern equivalent). There's certainly plenty of civil unrest. Charles looks as if he's on his last legs. The monarchy has lost all its mystique-- and the mystery and magic was really the whole point of it. Without it everyone can see what inadequate, weak individuals they really are. Social media is the modern equivalent of blood-lusting mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. Charles would have been in fear of losing his head a few hundred years ago.

Charles has consistently sided with the enemies of the English people, and there are a surprisingly large number of people online calling for a new Cromwell to arise and scrap the monarchy, along with all it represents. I think I'm starting to agree with them.

All those magnificent estates that actually BELONG to the British people and which the royals have hogged for themselves would need to be made public reserves and museums. It would be terrible if they were demolished and covered in nasty housing estates. I imagine though that tourism would decline dramatically for a while if the monarchy was dismantled-- so it's probably not going to happen any time soon. I don't think it will be long before William and whatshername take over anyway.
Cromwell stole my ancestors' land. I think I should demand it back

Yes, to be fair, Cromwell has something of an ambiguous reputation in Ireland, which I assume is what you're referring to there.

Instead of scrapping the monarchy, we could just depose the current dynasty and replace it with a different one, which has happened dozens of times in English history.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:44 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:33 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:01 pm

Charles has consistently sided with the enemies of the English people, and there are a surprisingly large number of people online calling for a new Cromwell to arise and scrap the monarchy, along with all it represents. I think I'm starting to agree with them.

All those magnificent estates that actually BELONG to the British people and which the royals have hogged for themselves would need to be made public reserves and museums. It would be terrible if they were demolished and covered in nasty housing estates. I imagine though that tourism would decline dramatically for a while if the monarchy was dismantled-- so it's probably not going to happen any time soon. I don't think it will be long before William and whatshername take over anyway.
Cromwell stole my ancestors' land. I think I should demand it back

Yes, to be fair, Cromwell has something of an ambiguous reputation in Ireland, which I assume is what you're referring to there.

Instead of scrapping the monarchy, we could just depose the current dynasty and replace it with a different one, which has happened dozens of times in English history.

It's not ambiguous. They hate his guts

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:55 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:44 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:33 pm

All those magnificent estates that actually BELONG to the British people and which the royals have hogged for themselves would need to be made public reserves and museums. It would be terrible if they were demolished and covered in nasty housing estates. I imagine though that tourism would decline dramatically for a while if the monarchy was dismantled-- so it's probably not going to happen any time soon. I don't think it will be long before William and whatshername take over anyway.
Cromwell stole my ancestors' land. I think I should demand it back

Yes, to be fair, Cromwell has something of an ambiguous reputation in Ireland, which I assume is what you're referring to there.

Instead of scrapping the monarchy, we could just depose the current dynasty and replace it with a different one, which has happened dozens of times in English history.

It's not ambiguous. They hate his guts

They do here too. Well, the monarchy does, anyway.

Behind this mask, there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask, there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof, Mr. Creedy...

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 8:45 pm Behind this mask, there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask, there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof, Mr. Creedy...

V for Vendetta, right?

I had to Google it, admittedly.