Philosophy Now Forum

There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

There is no such thing as gender. There are two sexes. Hope this helps. You're welcome.

Jori wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:03 am There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

Gender is the same as sex, and there are not twenty of them, there are only two. And it's certainly a big deal if people don't recognise this, as it leads to allowing men into women's spaces, by pretending to be women. Every so often, as regular as clockwork, there's a push at work to make everything unisex, including changing rooms, specifically to accommodate them. So far the staff have managed to resist this, but I suspect it's only a matter of time, at which point I would leave.

People can't change their gender, any more than they can change their species, so why are people who state this obvious biological fact called gender critical? For ages I genuinely thought that the term "gender critical" referred to the people who claim that it's possible to change it, if you don't like it.

And it's worse, much worse. All the horror stories now coming out of vulnerable kids being brainwashed into believing they were the opposite gender and then having their sexual parts removed, only to grow up and wish they hadn't. By which time, of course, it's far, far too late. Anyone who promotes this deserves to be locked up for life, in my opinion.

Jori wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:03 am There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

Gender is a role that people play within society.

The proliferation of gender shows that some people don't find the conventional male and female roles to be satisfying.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:16 pm

Jori wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:03 am There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

Gender is a role that people play within society.

The proliferation of gender shows that some people don't find the conventional male and female roles to be satisfying.

And 'satisfying' delusional people is supposed to be what we do?

It's not necessarily "delusional" to not want to squeeze oneself into a prefabricated box.

It's also not necessarily too burdensome to accept some diversity in gender roles.

Jori wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:03 am There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

The human soul...

(or the "I Am-ness" --> the "locus" of our being)

...is genderless.

We only experience the temporary illusion of gender...

(i.e., finding ourselves in either a male or a female body at birth - and sometimes, in very rare instances, in a body with both male and female genitalia due to a DNA mishap)

...for the sake of facilitating the physiological process of awakening new (again, genderless) souls into existence via the bodily reproductive system.

I suggest that the truth is that we are immersed in a soul-creating "system" that requires that its participants be imbued with an instinctive attraction for the opposite gender, along with being imbued with the patience and desire to give birth to, and to raise children.

We're talking about the manifestation of new souls (children) who need to be nurtured and cared for until they can take over the birthing process.

And for this "system"...

(which consists of billions of bodies, magnetically attached to the surface of a spinning ball that is flying through space at 67,000 mph around a power source)

...to actually work, it also requires that its participants operate at an "attenuated level of consciousness" that prevents them from realizing just how utterly strange the "system" truly is.

And the point is that because our souls are indeed genderless at their root, it causes some of the souls to not be satisfied (and rightly so) with being assigned a specific gender.

And that, in turn,...

(in conjunction with our attenuated [sleepwalking-like] level of consciousness)

...causes some of us to over-react by falsely imagining that there can be more than two genders.

The ultimate point is that for the sake of maintaining the functionality of this soul-creating "system," the necessary attenuation of our consciousness is going to create a few (if not most) of our problems.
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Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:25 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:16 pm

Jori wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:03 am There used to be only two genders – male and female – but now we see a proliferation of more than twenty genders. For some people, their gender and pronouns are big deal, but for me, I don’t care what my gender is or of people mistake my gender. What matters to me is my character, whatever my gender may be.

Gender is a role that people play within society.

The proliferation of gender shows that some people don't find the conventional male and female roles to be satisfying.

And 'satisfying' delusional people is supposed to be what we do?

"Do unto others..." Of course we need not work toward "saritsying" delusions when they cause harm. But if they are harmless, perhaps we should follow Jesus' advice. If we can make others happy, and harm nobody,, why not?

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 5:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:25 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:16 pm
Gender is a role that people play within society.

The proliferation of gender shows that some people don't find the conventional male and female roles to be satisfying.

And 'satisfying' delusional people is supposed to be what we do?

"Do unto others..."

I agree. Deliver people from their delusions, as we all should want to be. There's no kindness in letting the deluded persist, however "satisfied" they may claim to feel.

...if they are harmless...

There are not many truly "harmless" delusions. Almost always, you can find some level of "harm" that is being done when a person abandons reality for a delusion.

But for certain, thinking that you're a woman when you're a man, or vise versa, is not a "harmless" thing, either to the deluded one or the others he seeks to pull into his delusions with him. So that one's out for "harmlessness."

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:05 pm

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 5:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:25 pm
And 'satisfying' delusional people is supposed to be what we do?

"Do unto others..."

I agree. Deliver people from their delusions, as we all should want to be. There's no kindness in letting the deluded persist, however "satisfied" they may claim to feel.

...if they are harmless...

There are not many truly "harmless" delusions. Almost always, you can find some level of "harm" that is being done when a person abandons reality for a delusion.

But for certain, thinking that you're a woman when you're a man, or vise versa, is not a "harmless" thing, either to the deluded one or the others he seeks to pull into his delusions with him. So that one's out for "harmlessness."

Nonsense. Is it a "delusion" to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex as you? Perhaps it is a delusion to be born male and identify as female -- but whom does it harm? AS far as I can tell, the only people it harms are right wing whackos who get pissed off just thinking about it. Is that you, I.C.?

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:05 pm

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 5:44 pm

"Do unto others..."

I agree. Deliver people from their delusions, as we all should want to be. There's no kindness in letting the deluded persist, however "satisfied" they may claim to feel.

...if they are harmless...

There are not many truly "harmless" delusions. Almost always, you can find some level of "harm" that is being done when a person abandons reality for a delusion.

But for certain, thinking that you're a woman when you're a man, or vise versa, is not a "harmless" thing, either to the deluded one or the others he seeks to pull into his delusions with him. So that one's out for "harmlessness."

Is it a "delusion" to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex as you?

I'll put your own question to you. You might have as easily asked, "Is it a delusion to be sexually attracted to children or the dead or sexual violence or dogs and cats." The argument's the same: all that's shifted is the object of the desire. What would you say to those alternatives?

The fact that one has a "desire" does not speak to the question of whether or not that "desire" is legitimate. You'll need an argument that show that the desire itself is deserving of being gratified. Do you have any such?

But of course, if you're a subjectivist about morality, you couldn't, could you? It can't be objectively "wrong" to refuse to agree with somebody else's desire if all morality is subjective. To think so would be self-contradiction.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:50 pm I'll put your own question to you. You might have as easily asked, "Is it a delusion to be sexually attracted to children or the dead or sexual violence or dogs and cats." The argument's the same: all that's shifted is the object of the desire. What would you say to those alternatives?

The fact that one has a "desire" does not speak to the question of whether or not that "desire" is legitimate. You'll need an argument that show that the desire itself is deserving of being gratified. Do you have any such?

But of course, if you're a subjectivist about morality, you couldn't, could you? It can't be objectively "wrong" to refuse to agree with somebody else's desire if all morality is subjective. To think so would be self-contradiction.

It is not a "delusion" to be sexually attracted to whomever one is sexually attracted to. Why would it be. A delusion would be to be sexually attracted to someone for whom one has no natural sexual attraction: for a gay man to marry a straight woman, for example, which occurred regularly -- especially in the discriminatory past.

The desire exists; its "legitimacy" is irrelevant. It is neither evil nor delusional nor illegitimate to be sexually attracted to children. It is evil to have sex with children.

I'm not sure what it means to "agree with somebody else's desire". It would be silly to claim that their subjective desire did not exist, would it not? Is that what you mean by "agree with"? Or are you simply writing nonsense? Or do you mean "approve of"? Attempts to alter desires (for example conversion therapies by Christian groups) don't work.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:45 pm It's not necessarily "delusional" to not want to squeeze oneself into a prefabricated box.

Meaningless wokisms blah blah...

How ironic. That's EXACTLY what so-called 'sexchangers' are doing. You lot are truly the stupidest people who ever existed

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 8:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:50 pm I'll put your own question to you. You might have as easily asked, "Is it a delusion to be sexually attracted to children or the dead or sexual violence or dogs and cats." The argument's the same: all that's shifted is the object of the desire. What would you say to those alternatives?

The fact that one has a "desire" does not speak to the question of whether or not that "desire" is legitimate. You'll need an argument that show that the desire itself is deserving of being gratified. Do you have any such?

But of course, if you're a subjectivist about morality, you couldn't, could you? It can't be objectively "wrong" to refuse to agree with somebody else's desire if all morality is subjective. To think so would be self-contradiction.

It is not a "delusion" to be sexually attracted to whomever one is sexually attracted to.

Really? Then is it any more of a "delusion" to be attracted to children, corpses and animals? The same line of argument you're floating works every bit as well for those cases.

The desire exists; its "legitimacy" is irrelevant.

Not at all. There are surely good and bad desires. We may disagree on what some are, but we don't disagree about that.

It is neither evil nor delusional nor illegitimate to be sexually attracted to children. It is evil to have sex with children.

Well, Jesus Christ had a much more precise and accurate idea of what the moral status of both are. He pointed out that even heterosexual desire, when directed to an illegitimate object, is evil. See Matthew 5:28. The fact that the action is evil doesn't make the desire neutral. They're both problematic, morally speaking: one shows the outward actions, but the other reveals the state of the heart.

It would be silly to claim that their subjective desire did not exist, would it not?

Nobody's denying the desire exists. We're debating its moral status. That means we both know it exists, but aren't agreeing on what that moral status is.

I'm pointing out that having a desire and having a legitimate desire are not the same thing. And you believe that, too...even if you disagree about which specific desires fit in which category.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:50 pm

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:13 pm Is it a "delusion" to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex as you?

I'll put your own question to you. You might have as easily asked, "Is it a delusion to be sexually attracted to children or the dead or sexual violence or dogs and cats." The argument's the same: all that's shifted is the object of the desire. What would you say to those alternatives?

Saying that two adults of the same sex being attracted to each other is NOT the same as saying an adult can be sexually attracted to children. Being sexually attracted to children, while not causing harm in and of itself, does cause harm when it is REVEALED or ACTED upon. Children are vulnerable to adult sexual predation and it can cause trauma. If two adults of the same sex consent to having sex together and it is not forced on either of them, then it is NOT the same thing if it causes no such harm.