Philosophy Now Forum

Determinism shown to end in meaninglessness nonsense by colin leslie dean

Causal determinism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

“Causal determinism, sometimes synonymous with historical determinism (a sort of path dependence), is "the idea that every event is necessitated by antecedent events and conditions together with the laws of nature."
“Causal determinism has also been considered more generally as the idea that everything that happens or exists is caused by antecedent conditions”

BUT
Causal determinism

ends in nonsense contradiction meaninglessness

Note for over 3 centuries since Newton thru to now and even the greatest mathematician of the 19th century Poincare whos work on the 3 body problem led to chaos theory none of the greatest minds in history have seen the bleeding obvious and the question is why

take the 3 body problem –as a simplification of all things in the universe

But note all the universe is made up of things in interrelationships with everything else

if we take Newton’s law of gravitation

F = G(m1m2)/R2.

Thus when we move object A it effects the other two objects B and C
But when objects B and C move that effects object A


So

we can say that A in effect caused its own motion thus we can say the antecedent cause of A is infact just the antecedent A itself

in other words

the cause of the cause is the cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

note

because all things in the universe are interrelationships with everything else
then

from the above

all things are their own antecedent cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp ... ssness.pdf

or

scribd

https://www.scribd.com/document/7167605 ... nt-physics

janeprasanga wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:16 pm if we take Newton’s law of gravitation

F = G(m1m2)/R2.

Thus when we move object A it effects the other two objects B and C
But when objects B and C move that effects object A

Well, change at time 1 affects other objects at a later time. The circularity you indicate is not there.
Yes, mass anywhere affects the motion of all matter anywhere, at least under Newton.

Newtonian mechanics has been shown to be non-deterministic. Just FYI.

As for modern physics, some interpretations are deterministic and some are not. Gravity is not a good place to look for the differences, nor is chaotic systems. Keep it simple.

janeprasanga wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:16 pm Determinism shown to end in meaninglessness nonsense by colin leslie dean

Causal determinism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

“Causal determinism, sometimes synonymous with historical determinism (a sort of path dependence), is "the idea that every event is necessitated by antecedent events and conditions together with the laws of nature."
“Causal determinism has also been considered more generally as the idea that everything that happens or exists is caused by antecedent conditions”

BUT
Causal determinism

ends in nonsense contradiction meaninglessness

Note for over 3 centuries since Newton thru to now and even the greatest mathematician of the 19th century Poincare whos work on the 3 body problem led to chaos theory none of the greatest minds in history have seen the bleeding obvious and the question is why

take the 3 body problem –as a simplification of all things in the universe

But note all the universe is made up of things in interrelationships with everything else

if we take Newton’s law of gravitation

F = G(m1m2)/R2.

Thus when we move object A it effects the other two objects B and C
But when objects B and C move that effects object A


So

we can say that A in effect caused its own motion thus we can say the antecedent cause of A is infact just the antecedent A itself

in other words

the cause of the cause is the cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

note

because all things in the universe are interrelationships with everything else
then

from the above

all things are their own antecedent cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp ... ssness.pdf

or

scribd

https://www.scribd.com/document/7167605 ... nt-physics

I've been talking to AI about just this.

The clockwork universe has been obsolete for a long time but most people still see one.

Causality should not be understood in terms of causal changes. As the materialist philosopher Friedrich Engels had pointed out long ago, cause and effect are ambiguous and can depend upon context, sometimes even switching places with each other depending upon how to you phrase the same problem, and pretty much for the same reason. He came from the philosophy of dialectical materialism which argues that everything is interconnected, and so you cannot draw hard and fast lines between things, and so you cannot meaningfully label anything as an essential cause in an absolute sense.

Althusser referred to this concept as "overdetermination," that if everything is interconnected, then any event is to some degree caused by everything else, and so everything is both a cause and effect on everything else. Some causes are just more immediately relevant. Althusser saw this "overdetermination" as one of the defining features of dialectical materialism. It is still "determinism" because it does not open the door for libertarian free will, but it does reject essentialism. It is in that sense also similar to Benoist's contextual realism which is another anti-essentialist philosophy.

Causality is better understood in terms of constraints than cause-and-effect chains. If even X occurs at time t=0, X is predetermined if knowing an event or set of events at time t<0 constrains the possible values of X to a single value. X is postdetermined if known an event or set of events at time t>0 constrains the possible values of X to a single value. X is time-symmetrically determined if knowing events at time t<0 and t>0 both constrain the possibilities of X, but neither independently constraint it to a single value, but both taken together will. X is probabilistically determined if it is statistically dependent upon some other events so knowing those events allow you to constrain it, but not to a single value.

In that sense, it is more of an explicit mathematical property of a physical model rather than an abstract philosophical concept.

There are many kinds of "determinism." Local predetermination is just one of them. The notion that everything is interconnected to everything else does not necessarily contradict with determinism in general. David Bohm for example was a big fan of that concept that everything is interconnected, but he tied it to a nonlocal predeterministic theory (de Brogilie-Bohm theory). There are also ways things can be interconnected without even nonlocality, such as through superdeterminism or time-symmetric causality Everything being interconnected does not rule out a "clockwork universe." It would just be "clockwork" where it is impossible to exorcise statistical dependence between seemingly independent things, and that nothing could therefore ever be perfectly isolated from everything else.

Chaos also does not contradict predeterminism, as chaotic systems are only practically unpredictable.

janeprasanga wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:16 pm Determinism shown to end in meaninglessness nonsense by colin leslie dean

Causal determinism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

“Causal determinism, sometimes synonymous with historical determinism (a sort of path dependence), is "the idea that every event is necessitated by antecedent events and conditions together with the laws of nature."
“Causal determinism has also been considered more generally as the idea that everything that happens or exists is caused by antecedent conditions”

BUT
Causal determinism

ends in nonsense contradiction meaninglessness

Note for over 3 centuries since Newton thru to now and even the greatest mathematician of the 19th century Poincare whos work on the 3 body problem led to chaos theory none of the greatest minds in history have seen the bleeding obvious and the question is why

take the 3 body problem –as a simplification of all things in the universe

But note all the universe is made up of things in interrelationships with everything else

if we take Newton’s law of gravitation

F = G(m1m2)/R2.

Thus when we move object A it effects the other two objects B and C
But when objects B and C move that effects object A


So

we can say that A in effect caused its own motion thus we can say the antecedent cause of A is infact just the antecedent A itself

in other words

the cause of the cause is the cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

note

because all things in the universe are interrelationships with everything else
then

from the above

all things are their own antecedent cause

just nonsense meaninglessness

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp ... ssness.pdf

or

scribd

https://www.scribd.com/document/7167605 ... nt-physics

Infinite regress shows determinism quite well as A leads to B leads to C....

Cyclicality observes actuality arising from potentiality quite well.