Philosophy Now Forum

….

What is the route?

Of ignorance?

You go through a death process.

You have near death experiences.

Mystic visions? Oh, you bet…

….

Then, you get beaten down by metal.

And then,

You expose yourself - to being; a fit thrower.

javelins fly better than fits...

-Imp

So the OP is separating religion and ignorance... interesting. Tell me more.

Religion is sacred ignorance and a license not to think for oneself.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 5:06 am Religion is sacred ignorance and a license not to think for oneself.

Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse than that:

In terms of predicate logic, is the following valid? "God created the universe. Jesus is God. Jesus is also a man. Hence, a man created the universe."

DeepSeek

Yes, the argument is valid in predicate logic with identity. The premises entail the conclusion through logical deduction.

Gemini

Yes, the argument is valid in terms of predicate logic, given the interpretation that "Jesus is God" implies identity (j = g). The conclusion logically follows from the premises.

So, you must choose. Christianity or logic, because they are absolutely not compatible in any shape or form.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:09 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 5:06 am Religion is sacred ignorance and a license not to think for oneself.

Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse than that:

In terms of predicate logic, is the following valid? "God created the universe. Jesus is God. Jesus is also a man. Hence, a man created the universe."

DeepSeek

Yes, the argument is valid in predicate logic with identity. The premises entail the conclusion through logical deduction.

Gemini

Yes, the argument is valid in terms of predicate logic, given the interpretation that "Jesus is God" implies identity (j = g). The conclusion logically follows from the premises.

So, you must choose. Christianity or logic, because they are absolutely not compatible in any shape or form.

Logic is far too cold, crystalline and dictatorial in its purity requirements. What people want is Chicken Soup for the Soul, spiced according to Eastern or Western preferences which satisfy any and all residual default cravings by annulling any propensity of what the brain does naturally, i.e., thinking ahead. Being consistently served by scripture, their brains are no-longer hungry to know more. Chicken Soup for the Soul, that's what all religions amount to, regardless of any supposed sophistication which, rather than proclaiming it absurd, makes it sound more mystical and therefore more believable, more to be regarded.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 8:22 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:09 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 5:06 am Religion is sacred ignorance and a license not to think for oneself.

Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse than that:

In terms of predicate logic, is the following valid? "God created the universe. Jesus is God. Jesus is also a man. Hence, a man created the universe."

DeepSeek

Yes, the argument is valid in predicate logic with identity. The premises entail the conclusion through logical deduction.

Gemini

Yes, the argument is valid in terms of predicate logic, given the interpretation that "Jesus is God" implies identity (j = g). The conclusion logically follows from the premises.

So, you must choose. Christianity or logic, because they are absolutely not compatible in any shape or form.

Logic is far too cold, crystalline and dictatorial in its purity requirements. What people want is Chicken Soup for the Soul, spiced according to Eastern or Western preferences which satisfy any and all residual default cravings by annulling any propensity of what the brain does naturally, i.e., thinking ahead. Being consistently served by scripture, their brains are no-longer hungry to know more. Chicken Soup for the Soul, that's what all religions amount to, regardless of any supposed sophistication which, rather than proclaiming it absurd, makes it sound more mystical and therefore more believable, more to be regarded.

Nice. And anyone weakly hostilely criticising a religion from another has no credibility whatsoever. Its the epitome of ignorance. I try and be Rogerian to all, but some cannot be brought in from the cold by that.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 11:45 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 8:22 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:09 am
Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse than that:



So, you must choose. Christianity or logic, because they are absolutely not compatible in any shape or form.

Logic is far too cold, crystalline and dictatorial in its purity requirements. What people want is Chicken Soup for the Soul, spiced according to Eastern or Western preferences which satisfy any and all residual default cravings by annulling any propensity of what the brain does naturally, i.e., thinking ahead. Being consistently served by scripture, their brains are no-longer hungry to know more. Chicken Soup for the Soul, that's what all religions amount to, regardless of any supposed sophistication which, rather than proclaiming it absurd, makes it sound more mystical and therefore more believable, more to be regarded.

Nice. And anyone weakly hostilely criticising a religion from another has no credibility whatsoever. Its the epitome of ignorance. I try and be Rogerian to all, but some cannot be brought in from the cold by that.

Even though it may be unpopular to say, there are some things in the world, very few, upon which it would be both travesty and contradiction to compromise. Theists are the least Rogerian in that respect and always have been.

You people are fucking thick. So arrogant in your ignorance. Faith does not limit anything, in fact, it switches off the binary limitation -- a requirement that CHRIST stated to KNOW.

U fucking idiots that think U R wise, fools.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 2:37 am You people are fucking thick. So arrogant in your ignorance. Faith does not limit anything, in fact, it switches off the binary limitation -- a requirement that CHRIST stated to KNOW.

U fucking idiots that think U R wise, fools.

Islam and even Judaism are perfectly compatible with logic.

Even Buddhism is, but you'll have to switch to the four-valued catuskoti, which is a logic system that most people on the planet do not understand particularly well:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-valued_logic

Many-valued logic (also multi- or multiple-valued logic) is a propositional calculus in which there are more than two truth values. Traditionally, in Aristotle's logical calculus, there were only two possible values (i.e., "true" and "false") for any proposition. Classical two-valued logic may be extended to n-valued logic for n greater than 2. Those most popular in the literature are three-valued (e.g., Łukasiewicz's and Kleene's, which accept the values "true", "false", and "unknown"), four-valued, nine-valued, the finite-valued (finitely-many valued) with more than three values, and the infinite-valued (infinitely-many-valued), such as fuzzy logic and probability logic.

Graham Priest is the top expert on the formalization of Buddhist logic. His calculus is, however, incompatible with Stephen Kleene's results. Upfront I can tell you that I will typically side with Kleene and not with Priest. Maybe one day I will run into an example where it is the other way around but I doubt it.

For Christianity to keep surviving its spectacular clash with even the most basic forms of logic, it needs the ability to silence "heretics". Without an effective Spanish Inquisition, the religion won't survive. Their bullshit is laughable and they know it.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 12:37 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 11:45 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 8:22 pm

Logic is far too cold, crystalline and dictatorial in its purity requirements. What people want is Chicken Soup for the Soul, spiced according to Eastern or Western preferences which satisfy any and all residual default cravings by annulling any propensity of what the brain does naturally, i.e., thinking ahead. Being consistently served by scripture, their brains are no-longer hungry to know more. Chicken Soup for the Soul, that's what all religions amount to, regardless of any supposed sophistication which, rather than proclaiming it absurd, makes it sound more mystical and therefore more believable, more to be regarded.

Nice. And anyone weakly hostilely criticising a religion from another has no credibility whatsoever. Its the epitome of ignorance. I try and be Rogerian to all, but some cannot be brought in from the cold by that.

Even though it may be unpopular to say, there are some things in the world, very few, upon which it would be both travesty and contradiction to compromise. Theists are the least Rogerian in that respect and always have been.

Aye. One can only be stoical in the face of misanthropy, hatred for humanity, projected on to God, based on a short circuit in moral development that few survive; the taste of fear and loathing endures in the the purity/disgust receptor. Civilization shows no sign of being able to transcend that with sufficient education. Even money can't buy it in the vast majority of the ruling class, let alone the bourgeoisie.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:51 am
Islam and even Judaism are perfectly compatible with logic.

A corrupted perverse logic, which can rationalize every absurdity under the sun, has been the instrument of truth for theists and theism since day one. There are no other means for that type to rely on in validating their beliefs beyond mere assumptions. Such absurdities can only be acknowledged by the absurd arguments made in its defense.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:42 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:51 am
Islam and even Judaism are perfectly compatible with logic.

A corrupted perverse logic, which can rationalize every absurdity under the sun, has been the instrument of truth for theists and theism since day one. There are no other means for that type to rely on in validating their beliefs beyond mere assumptions. Such absurdities can only be acknowledged by the absurd arguments made in its defense.

Once you believe, i.e. have a passion, reason its slave. As you are your belief's. One can emerge most easily from Christianity to deism, and from liberal Judaism. A small minority do. The flowering of Islam died a thousand years ago. Despite that it has been my great privilege to be hosted by and to host nothing but decent human beings who happen to be Muslim, many times. As has been my experience with damnationist Christians. Still is. People are better than their religions. A lot better.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 7:00 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:42 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:51 am
Islam and even Judaism are perfectly compatible with logic.

A corrupted perverse logic, which can rationalize every absurdity under the sun, has been the instrument of truth for theists and theism since day one. There are no other means for that type to rely on in validating their beliefs beyond mere assumptions. Such absurdities can only be acknowledged by the absurd arguments made in its defense.

People are better than their religions. A lot better.

In many cases they are; in many cases they are not, where Rogerian compromises are not possible and would actually be considered a form of defeat and treason against the faith. Collectively, religion has actually made people worse, not least, by making them more unthinking and stupid accepting the most idiotic absurdities.

There are 100 billion neurons in the human brain. Sometimes one has to truly wonder what happened to the rest of it!

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 7:27 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 7:00 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:42 pm

A corrupted perverse logic, which can rationalize every absurdity under the sun, has been the instrument of truth for theists and theism since day one. There are no other means for that type to rely on in validating their beliefs beyond mere assumptions. Such absurdities can only be acknowledged by the absurd arguments made in its defense.

People are better than their religions. A lot better.

In many cases they are; in many cases they are not, where Rogerian compromises are not possible and would actually be considered a form of defeat and treason against the faith. Collectively, religion has actually made people worse, not least, by making them more unthinking and stupid accepting the most idiotic absurdities.

There are 100 billion neurons in the human brain. Sometimes one has to truly wonder what happened to the rest of it!

Can't disagree. But. It aaaaaiiiiin't... Rogerian : ) It's a brute fact that only we can know : ) We have to be kind. Nothing else works. Absolutely nothing. We have to find common cause with them. Against the ruling class. And that'll fail too!