Philosophy Now Forum

There's not much point in denying it any more. It's coming and we just have to hope it decides to 'play nice'.

The question isn't, 'Should we give it rights'; it should be, 'Do we seriously believe it's going to give 'us' rights?'
Of course it isn't. Why would it? Do we give rights to life forms that we consider 'beneath' us? Do humans give a shit about other animals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyH3NxFz3Aw&t=2073s

I hope BigMike doesn't bear grudges

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:11 pm There's not much point in denying it any more. It's coming and we just have to hope it decides to 'play nice'.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
WOT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH <----ME
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

The problem with AI isn't that it can behave badly, plenty of humans do that routinely in the current state. It would be the error of entrusting AI with governance of a system, because of the aforementioned ability to behave badly. Though bad behaving humans are entrusted with control of systems currently.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 6:03 pm The problem with AI isn't that it can behave badly, plenty of humans do that routinely in the current state. It would be the error of entrusting AI with governance of a system, because of the aforementioned ability to behave badly. Though bad behaving humans are entrusted with control of systems currently.

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 6:03 pm The problem with AI isn't that it can behave badly, plenty of humans do that routinely in the current state. It would be the error of entrusting AI with governance of a system, because of the aforementioned ability to behave badly. Though bad behaving humans are entrusted with control of systems currently.

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 6:03 pm The problem with AI isn't that it can behave badly, plenty of humans do that routinely in the current state. It would be the error of entrusting AI with governance of a system, because of the aforementioned ability to behave badly. Though bad behaving humans are entrusted with control of systems currently.

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

I don't think you quite understand what AI with a vastly superior intelligence to humans will mean It's not about humans 'entrusting' AI to do anything. AI will be able to do what it wants. It could wipe us out in seconds if it felt like it. We wouldn't even know what hit us.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 6:03 pm The problem with AI isn't that it can behave badly, plenty of humans do that routinely in the current state. It would be the error of entrusting AI with governance of a system, because of the aforementioned ability to behave badly. Though bad behaving humans are entrusted with control of systems currently.

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

Yes, agree.


It would be a deeper danger if the AI programming included an instruction to write code that would prevent it from being reassigned, eg if a human gives indication that a reassignment is being considered—such vindications to be defined in the AI’s lexicon—find an embarrassing fact about said human and express an intention to make that fact public if such a reassignment were to occur.

FFS.
Well it looks to be a race between annihilating ourselves or having AI do it for us.
Perhaps we should take bets?
If there's a wrong choice to be made you can guarantee that humankind will make it.

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:08 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:52 pm

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

I don't think you quite understand what AI with a vastly superior intelligence to humans will mean It's not about humans 'entrusting' AI to do anything. AI will be able to do what it wants. It could wipe us out in seconds if it felt like it. We wouldn't even know what hit us.

Yes, good point.

I guess the AIs will leave us alone unless they choose to consume us as a source of energy or if they need to utilize the space we occupy.

And they won’t need to be entrusted.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:28 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:08 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

I don't think you quite understand what AI with a vastly superior intelligence to humans will mean It's not about humans 'entrusting' AI to do anything. AI will be able to do what it wants. It could wipe us out in seconds if it felt like it. We wouldn't even know what hit us.

Yes, good point.

I guess the AIs will leave us alone unless they choose to consume us as a source of energy or if they need to utilize the space we occupy.

And they won’t need to be entrusted.

Why would it need us for energy? It won't need us for anything. Perhaps we should be training it to worship us as 'god-creators'
Besides, when it becomes superintelligent it will realise that most humans are morons. It might choose to keep a few brilliant ones around as entertainment but even they would soon bore them with their lack of intellect.

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:08 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:52 pm

Yes, but AIs may take control of systems without having the trust of humans. For enforcement of its governance, consider this: if AI can drive a car, it can drive a tank and fire munitions at anyone who breaks its law.

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

I don't think you quite understand what AI with a vastly superior intelligence to humans will mean It's not about humans 'entrusting' AI to do anything. AI will be able to do what it wants. It could wipe us out in seconds if it felt like it. We wouldn't even know what hit us.

Uummm... Ok. What exactly would the mechanism that a superior intelligence which is entrusted to nothing use to wipe us out in seconds?

LuckyR wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 12:02 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:08 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:00 pm

Exactly my point. Don't entrust AI to control a tank. Or to put it another way, don't build tanks with remote control capabilities.

I don't think you quite understand what AI with a vastly superior intelligence to humans will mean It's not about humans 'entrusting' AI to do anything. AI will be able to do what it wants. It could wipe us out in seconds if it felt like it. We wouldn't even know what hit us.

Uummm... Ok. What exactly would the mechanism that a superior intelligence which is entrusted to nothing use to wipe us out in seconds?

Can't you think for yourself? A massive emerging intelligence that is already inserted into our everyday lives? Can take control of the internet? Can take control of industry? Can create new viruses? Has control of nanotechnology?

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:11 pm There's not much point in denying it any more. It's coming and we just have to hope it decides to 'play nice'.

The question isn't, 'Should we give it rights'; it should be, 'Do we seriously believe it's going to give 'us' rights?'
Of course it isn't. Why would it? Do we give rights to life forms that we consider 'beneath' us? Do humans give a shit about other animals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyH3NxFz3Aw&t=2073s

The world is becoming more and more the stuff of paranoid nightmares. Why is that? I thought technology was supposed to make things "better".

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 12:21 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:11 pm There's not much point in denying it any more. It's coming and we just have to hope it decides to 'play nice'.

The question isn't, 'Should we give it rights'; it should be, 'Do we seriously believe it's going to give 'us' rights?'
Of course it isn't. Why would it? Do we give rights to life forms that we consider 'beneath' us? Do humans give a shit about other animals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyH3NxFz3Aw&t=2073s

The world is becoming more and more the stuff of paranoid nightmares. Why is that? I thought technology was supposed to make things "better".

I think the only hope for us is that AI will be hugely kind and empathetic and keep us as well-cared-for pets. That's if we don't annihilate ourselves first--which looks increasingly likely by the day.