Philosophy Now Forum

Trigger warning.

Watch till the end only if you dare.
The raw brutal truth of human knowledge is not for the faint of heart.
Look away all yee who are scared of horror movies.
For those who are real seers, sit back,relax, and enjoy your popcorn and the movie of course

https://youtu.be/prVIm5PNtIc?si=0clwhumPMO7HhijB

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 5:12 pm Trigger warning.

Watch till the end only if you dare.
The raw brutal truth of human knowledge is not for the faint of heart.
Look away all yee who are scared of horror movies.
For those who are real seers, sit back,relax, and enjoy your popcorn and the movie of course

https://youtu.be/prVIm5PNtIc?si=0clwhumPMO7HhijB

Can you provide a synopsis of the content?

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:42 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 5:12 pm Trigger warning.

Watch till the end only if you dare.
The raw brutal truth of human knowledge is not for the faint of heart.
Look away all yee who are scared of horror movies.
For those who are real seers, sit back,relax, and enjoy your popcorn and the movie of course

https://youtu.be/prVIm5PNtIc?si=0clwhumPMO7HhijB

Can you provide a synopsis of the content?

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.
We are the greatest pretenders. Pretending is hard going, trying to explain it is harder, but the hardest of all is that nobody understands you and never will. Some people just can’t pretend anymore. Some people never wanted to pretend, or have ever pretended, some people were courageous, always in perfect alignment with a raw deeper truth, not bowing down to illusion, nor being easily sucked in by the allure of shiny trinkets that bind and seduce. Some were able to see clearly behind the curtain. They never flinched coming face to face with the void, they embraced it immediately without fear, right from the moment they were thrust into conscious living.

If you are genuinely interested in the zero-sugar-coated version of the truth that is self aware life, then watch the video to the end, be honest with yourself, ask yourself, am I just addicted to the illusion that is my life. Or am I relieved and at peace, and finally, for finding enormous value in negative thinking as my only perfect refuge from the horror of consciousness.

I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
(John 17:11, 14–15.)

A constant reminder that even though we are “in the world, we should not be of the world.”

"be still, and know that I am God"

I trust only in the spirit that brought me here to safely take me home.

The perfection that passes all understanding, that’s why it is wiser to become one with the truth, that is the solipsistic solitude of pure contented beingness.

Solipsism doesn’t mean what most humans think it means.

It’s a concept so misunderstood.

There’s nobody here. The universe is an empty shell, god has left the building.

The universe or infinity is completely alone, all one, there is nothing outside of this all alone oneness, it’s devoid of other, forever and eternally.

Suck it up.

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:54 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:42 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 5:12 pm Trigger warning.

Watch till the end only if you dare.
The raw brutal truth of human knowledge is not for the faint of heart.
Look away all yee who are scared of horror movies.
For those who are real seers, sit back,relax, and enjoy your popcorn and the movie of course

https://youtu.be/prVIm5PNtIc?si=0clwhumPMO7HhijB

Can you provide a synopsis of the content?

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.
We are the greatest pretenders. Pretending is hard going, trying to explain it is harder, but the hardest of all is that nobody understands you and never will. Some people just can’t pretend anymore. Some people never wanted to pretend, or have ever pretended, some people were courageous, always in perfect alignment with a raw deeper truth, not bowing down to illusion, nor being easily sucked in by the allure of shiny trinkets that bind and seduce. Some were able to see clearly behind the curtain. They never flinched coming face to face with the void, they embraced it immediately without fear, right from the moment they were thrust into conscious living.

If you are genuinely interested in the zero-sugar-coated version of the truth that is self aware life, then watch the video to the end, be honest with yourself, ask yourself, am I just addicted to the illusion that is my life. Or am I relieved and at peace, and finally, for finding enormous value in negative thinking as my only perfect refuge from the horror of consciousness.

Thanks. Not sure that that holds water. Throughout the OT a metaphor is woven where the unrighteous are considered to be "dead" and the righteous are considered to have "life". With that in mind, a more reasonable interpretation of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is that prior to eating the fruit, the inhabitants of Eden had experienced only "good" and therefore only "life". By eating the fruit, they gained knowledge of "evil" and consequently would "die".

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 9:14 am I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
(John 17:11, 14–15.)

A constant reminder that even though we are “in the world, we should not be of the world.”

Yet the vast majority of Christian are very much "of the world". In other words, the remain unrighteous. That is, they continue to commit sin.

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:33 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 9:14 am I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
(John 17:11, 14–15.)

A constant reminder that even though we are “in the world, we should not be of the world.”

Yet the vast majority of Christian are very much "of the world". In other words, the remain unrighteous. That is, they continue to commit sin.

Sin was born of language and by definition ( meaning ) in this conception.

This conception, the knowing knowledge that I exist, is the invisible made visible in the flesh, so of course some Christians are going to be sinners or unrighteousness, it’s just normal animal behaviour, it’s a man made construct. After all, only men and women are calling themselves Christian.

I haven’t seen any cats and dogs build religious churches where they all go hang out on a Sunday preying to their almighty sovereign creator, have you?

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:29 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:54 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:42 pm

Can you provide a synopsis of the content?

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.
We are the greatest pretenders. Pretending is hard going, trying to explain it is harder, but the hardest of all is that nobody understands you and never will. Some people just can’t pretend anymore. Some people never wanted to pretend, or have ever pretended, some people were courageous, always in perfect alignment with a raw deeper truth, not bowing down to illusion, nor being easily sucked in by the allure of shiny trinkets that bind and seduce. Some were able to see clearly behind the curtain. They never flinched coming face to face with the void, they embraced it immediately without fear, right from the moment they were thrust into conscious living.

If you are genuinely interested in the zero-sugar-coated version of the truth that is self aware life, then watch the video to the end, be honest with yourself, ask yourself, am I just addicted to the illusion that is my life. Or am I relieved and at peace, and finally, for finding enormous value in negative thinking as my only perfect refuge from the horror of consciousness.

Thanks. Not sure that that holds water. Throughout the OT a metaphor is woven where the unrighteous are considered to be "dead" and the righteous are considered to have "life". With that in mind, a more reasonable interpretation of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is that prior to eating the fruit, the inhabitants of Eden had experienced only "good" and therefore only "life". By eating the fruit, they gained knowledge of "evil" and consequently would "die".

It very much does hold water because what you’ve said in response here, is exactly bang on the point I am making. So kudos to you for understanding what I was saying and for putting it in your own words, which I agree with.

Fairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 6:53 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:33 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 9:14 am I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
(John 17:11, 14–15.)

A constant reminder that even though we are “in the world, we should not be of the world.”

Yet the vast majority of Christian are very much "of the world". In other words, the remain unrighteous. That is, they continue to commit sin.

Sin was born of language and by definition ( meaning ) in this conception.

This conception, the knowing knowledge that I exist, is the invisible made visible in the flesh, so of course some Christians are going to be sinners or unrighteousness, it’s just normal animal behaviour, it’s a man made construct. After all, only men and women are calling themselves Christian.

I haven’t seen any cats and dogs build religious churches where they all go hang out on a Sunday preying to their almighty sovereign creator, have you?

You don't seem to understand what Jesus is saying in John 17:11-19. To understand that, you need to put it in a larger context.
John 8
23And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24“I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“And the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
31Jesus therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

Jesus is speaking to the unrighteous, that is those who commit sin. He is telling them that since He does not commit sin, He is "from above" and therefore He is not "of this world". Since they do commit sin, they are "from below" and therefore they are "of this world". However, if they abide in His word, they will know the truth and the truth will make them free from committing sin. If they do so, they would then be "from above" and therefore not "of this world". In other words, they would have made themselves righteous.

With the above in mind, reread what is being said below. Note that by the time of John 17, they are no longer "of this world", that is they have made themselves righteous.

John 17
11I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are.
14I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

Note how Jesus reuses terms from John 8 such as "word", "truth" and "of this world". Also note that keeping them from "the evil one" entails them not committing sin. As would their being "one" with Jesus and God.

Many Christians speak of being "in this world, but not of this world" even though they continue to commit sin. Which doesn't make any sense in light of the above.

Let me know your thoughts on the above.

Fairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 6:56 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:29 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:54 am

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.
We are the greatest pretenders. Pretending is hard going, trying to explain it is harder, but the hardest of all is that nobody understands you and never will. Some people just can’t pretend anymore. Some people never wanted to pretend, or have ever pretended, some people were courageous, always in perfect alignment with a raw deeper truth, not bowing down to illusion, nor being easily sucked in by the allure of shiny trinkets that bind and seduce. Some were able to see clearly behind the curtain. They never flinched coming face to face with the void, they embraced it immediately without fear, right from the moment they were thrust into conscious living.

If you are genuinely interested in the zero-sugar-coated version of the truth that is self aware life, then watch the video to the end, be honest with yourself, ask yourself, am I just addicted to the illusion that is my life. Or am I relieved and at peace, and finally, for finding enormous value in negative thinking as my only perfect refuge from the horror of consciousness.

Thanks. Not sure that that holds water. Throughout the OT a metaphor is woven where the unrighteous are considered to be "dead" and the righteous are considered to have "life". With that in mind, a more reasonable interpretation of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is that prior to eating the fruit, the inhabitants of Eden had experienced only "good" and therefore only "life". By eating the fruit, they gained knowledge of "evil" and consequently would "die".

It very much does hold water because what you’ve said in response here, is exactly bang on the point I am making. So kudos to you for understanding what I was saying and for putting it in your own words, which I agree with.

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.


Doesn't seem like the point is the same. From the above, you seem to have physical death in mind.

Whereas I have a figurative "death" in mind: "death" which is a metaphor for unrighteousness. Physical death has nothing to do with it.

Did I miss somthing?

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 5:32 pm Let me know your thoughts on the above.

Speaking in metaphorical terms, from the Buddhist perspective, all that is written in the Bible, or in any of the other writings that form the basis of the world's diverse religions,...

(and, yes, that even includes the nihilistic mindset depicted in DAM's video)

...is simply a part of the hull, mast, and sail, etc., of the temporary "rafts" that carry us across the waters of life, only to be abandoned on the shore of death where they are no longer needed.

However, I suggest that the truth that awaits us on that "shore" is far more logical and wondrous than anything depicted in the Bible or in any of the other world religions,...

...and especially more logical than that which is reflected in the philosophy of Thomas Ligotti, which is summed up in the following blurb from AI Overview,...

According to Thomas Ligotti's pessimistic philosophy, the worst thing that can happen to a human is the emergence of consciousness, which is the source of all horrors and suffering.

...and from this line from the video's description...

Thomas Ligotti — a writer and philosopher who exposes consciousness as a disease and existence as an accident.

The narrator in the video asks:

"...What if the worst thing you could imagine was true?..."

...of which it goes on to suggest that (according to Ligotti) the worst thing that can happen to a human has already happened in that not only have humans been awakened into life through no choice of their own,...

...but also that humans are the only creatures who are conscious of the fact that they are going to die, and that life is nothing more than an exercise in futility and suffering that ends in eternal nothingness and oblivion.

Well, I can think of a lot worse things than eternal nothingness and oblivion.

For one thing, how about the Christian concept of Hell, for example?

It doesn't take a genius to realize that screaming and writhing in agony from being tortured for eternity, simply because you didn't perform the requisite rituals set forth in the Bible, is infinitely worse than blinking out of existence.

If Ligotti is trying to scare us into accepting his antinatalistic philosophy, then he needs to take lessons from the writers of the Bible.
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 9:01 pm

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 5:32 pm Let me know your thoughts on the above.

Speaking in metaphorical terms, from the Buddhist perspective, all that is written in the Bible, or in any of the other writings that form the basis of the world's diverse religions,...

(and, yes, that even includes the nihilistic mindset depicted in DAM's video)

...is simply a part of the hull, mast, and sail, etc., of the temporary "rafts" that carry us across the waters of life, only to be abandoned on the shore of death where they are no longer needed.

However, I suggest that the truth that awaits us on that "shore" is far more logical and wondrous than anything depicted in the Bible or in any of the other world religions,...

...and especially more logical than that which is reflected in the philosophy of Thomas Ligotti, which is summed up in the following blurb from AI Overview,...

According to Thomas Ligotti's pessimistic philosophy, the worst thing that can happen to a human is the emergence of consciousness, which is the source of all horrors and suffering.

...and from this line from the video's description...

Thomas Ligotti — a writer and philosopher who exposes consciousness as a disease and existence as an accident.

The narrator in the video asks:

"...What if the worst thing you could imagine was true?..."

...of which it goes on to suggest that (according to Ligotti) the worst thing that can happen to a human has already happened in that not only have humans been awakened into life through no choice of their own,...

...but also that humans are the only creatures who are conscious of the fact that they are going to die, and that life is nothing more than an exercise in futility and suffering that ends in eternal nothingness and oblivion.

Well, I can think of a lot worse things than eternal nothingness and oblivion.

For one thing, how about the Christian concept of Hell, for example?

It doesn't take a genius to realize that screaming and writhing in agony from being tortured for eternity, simply because you didn't perform the requisite rituals set forth in the Bible, is infinitely worse than blinking out of existence.

If Ligotti is trying to scare us into accepting his antinatalistic philosophy, then he needs to take lessons from the writers of the Bible.
_______

None of this seems to have much, if anything, to do with the content of my post. Did you mean to address your post to me?

That said, a couple of your comments are of interest:

It doesn't take a genius to realize that screaming and writhing in agony from being tortured for eternity, simply because you didn't perform the requisite rituals set forth in the Bible, is infinitely worse than blinking out of existence.

On the whole the Bible is a mess. However, the gospel preached by Jesus is reasonably sound and reasonably coherent. What's more, much of it is quite deep and profound. It's unfortunate that Christianity does not have that as its foundation. Instead Christianity has the Pauline gospel as its foundation. In the main, Christianity appeals to those having self-centered views. To wit, "Christians are so unlike their Christ".

According to Thomas Ligotti's pessimistic philosophy, the worst thing that can happen to a human is the emergence of consciousness, which is the source of all horrors and suffering...according to Ligotti the worst thing that can happen to a human has already happened in that not only have humans been awakened into life through no choice of their own,...but also that humans are the only creatures who are conscious of the fact that they are going to die, and that life is nothing more than an exercise in futility and suffering that ends in eternal nothingness and oblivion.


Actually, seems like the worst thing that can happen to a human is that they fail to use their consciousness to transcend having their desires, thoughts, beliefs, etc. controlled by the "lizard brain". Ultimately, this is the biggest problem facing humans rather than, say, suffering per se.

However, I suggest that the truth that awaits us on that "shore" is far more logical and wondrous than anything depicted in the Bible or in any of the other world religions,...

Wondrous? As with "overcoming suffering", it's the wrong goal.

BTW, had no interest in watching the video which is why I asked for the synopsis which fairy was good enough to provide.

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 7:18 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 6:56 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:29 pm

Thanks. Not sure that that holds water. Throughout the OT a metaphor is woven where the unrighteous are considered to be "dead" and the righteous are considered to have "life". With that in mind, a more reasonable interpretation of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is that prior to eating the fruit, the inhabitants of Eden had experienced only "good" and therefore only "life". By eating the fruit, they gained knowledge of "evil" and consequently would "die".

It very much does hold water because what you’ve said in response here, is exactly bang on the point I am making. So kudos to you for understanding what I was saying and for putting it in your own words, which I agree with.

Humans were never meant to know they existed. To know they are going to die, to know they are doomed.Eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge was the beginning of the end for humanity. Notice how most animals die with quiet grace, humility and dignity without pity, or need for sympathy. While humans recoil and often swoon with horror at the prospect.


Doesn't seem like the point is the same. From the above, you seem to have physical death in mind.

Whereas I have a figurative "death" in mind: "death" which is a metaphor for unrighteousness. Physical death has nothing to do with it.

Did I miss somthing?

You missed nothing. No one will ever understand you except yourself. Don’t ask me anything. I cannot give you anything you don’t already have.

If in doubt, run it by A.I. ChatGPT