Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:13 pm**

I think that is normal, even though odd.

Every form of life is composed of a number of life support systems, each of them have their particular job to do, and they simply do it.

Now a mind is the product of one of those life support systems, and claims it does not know what its purpose is.
Well, there you go. With your own lips, you said what Evolutionist say, not evolved to be functional.
It is what the Bible also states.
'
It is a normal product of evolution to be at a staged of development, that your only concept of work is Duh!

A person without a purpose, is simply an incomplete person.

By biological design, we are destined to be intelligent enough to do our own work. How intelligent are you if you cannot even take the first step?

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:34 pm**

Natural selection did not intend for us to exist.
It did not design us.

The universe as a whole, did not intend for us to exist.
It did not design us.

They shaped us, influenced us, affect us - but did not design us.
They want nothing of us,
are indifference to our presence or absence,
and indifferent to our actions or inactions.

Whether we live or die, is completely neutral beyond the bias of the living.
We exist because we are capable of existing.
We survive because we're capable of surviving.

We are a naturally unfolding outcome of a state of existence prior to our being.

We are not 'meant' to do anything.

Though we can build meaning from our being.
Construct purpose for why to continue existing,
and what to aim towards.

Meaning is founded within ourselves.
Our objectives, our goals, our preferences.

If determinism is true,
then arrogance is foolishness.
And mocking others,
or feeling above others,
is also foolishness.

==

My views have changed slightly from below,
but general gist remains the same.

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/how-to-live/33693/1

Ben JS - ILP 2012 wrote: What is our purpose?

We came into existence without our choice or intent, so the purpose of our existence resides outside of us.

What exists beyond us?

The planet. Beyond? The Solar System. Beyond? The Galaxy. Beyond? The Universe. Beyond? Nothing. The Universe contains all existence.

What does the Universe will for us?

Not much. Our existence doesn’t affect the Universe, for before life existed, the Universe was doing just fine with inanimate matter/energy.

If the Universe lacks will for us, how could there be purpose?

Relative to the Universe, there can’t be purpose.

If our existence is without purpose, why do we want to exist?

We enjoy the process of existence. We enjoy what it is to be alive and attaining our desires.

What do we desire?

We desire to stop experiences of discomfort, and attain experiences of pleasure.

Where did our desires come from?

Desires evolved due to natural selection.

Organisms that had drive to extinguish threats to their existence, and seek what extended the existence of their species, survived better than organisms that lacked these.

How do our desires relate to the Universe?

The Universe has no access to our desires, so they don’t. Our desires exist within us, and relate to us only.

If our desires only relate to us, and affect nothing but us, ought we give them credit?

We have no obligation to give our desire credit, or to act on them. It is our choice whether we want to.

What are we without desire?

Matter that is aware of itself.

What would happen if we ignored our desires?

We would die.

Should we die?

Life and Death is neutral, relative to the Universe. Your death is neutral, your life is neutral. You’re not obligated to do either.

Where does that leave us?

In a position of choice. You are free to make your own choice. If you prefer to live, seek that. If you prefer to die, seek that. It’s irrelevant.

What influences our choice?

Our desires, which are bias towards survival.

If nothing is expected of us, what should we do in life?

Attain your desires to the maximum potential.

How do we achieve maximum results?

Cooperate with anything that will aide the process.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:45 pm**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:13 pmA person without a purpose, is simply an incomplete person.

On the other hand, what makes a person "complete"?

Then the part where any number of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ideologies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... philosophy

...will insist that's only accomplished by joining them on their very own One True Path.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:47 pm**

Well! who can argue with someone who anthropomorphizes "natural selection" as if a verb is a noun?

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:00 pm**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:47 pm Well! who can argue with someone who anthropomorphizes "natural selection" as if a verb is a noun?

And that has what to do with this:

On the other hand, what makes a person "complete"?

Then the part where any number of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ideologies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... philosophy

...will insist that's only accomplished by joining them on their very own One True Path.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:16 pm**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:47 pm Well! who can argue with someone who anthropomorphizes "natural selection" as if a verb is a noun?

Natural selection, the universe and existence aren't conscious entities.
Asking purpose from these things does not make sense.
That was my point.

Why do I make this point?

Let me connect the dots for you -
let me spoon feed you.
Clearly you need the help.

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:13 pmBy biological design

Design: To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect / To have as a goal or purpose; intend.

We are not biologically designed, fool.

Do you know what the words you use mean?

Your statement implies intent.

I'm not arguing with you.
I'm lecturing you.
Educating you.

You're welcome.
Now you have something else to claim for your brilliant insights.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:50 pm**

Ben JS wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:16 pm
Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:47 pm Well! who can argue with someone who anthropomorphizes "natural selection" as if a verb is a noun?
Natural selection, the universe and existence aren't conscious entities.
Asking purpose from these things does not make sense.
That was my point.

Why do I make this point?

Let me connect the dots for you -
let me spoon feed you.
Clearly you need the help.

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:13 pmBy biological design
Design: To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect / To have as a goal or purpose; intend.

We are not biologically designed, fool.

Do you know what the words you use mean?

Your statement implies intent.

I'm not arguing with you.
I'm lecturing you.
Educating you.

You're welcome.
Now you have something else to claim for your brilliant insights.

LMAO
so, if I say, by the design of a rock, I am using your pathetic attempt at using a dictionary? Maybe you should have someone show you how to use one.

So, you are claiming your design is not biological. Maybe too many robot movies? Or something more primitive, like Pinocchio?

So let me inform you of what intelligent people do. They actually read the author in question, as I di, I even digitalized it.

It means, the outcome of a process by natural means, no matter what process was involved. It means, the process is knowable.

Fools, like yourself, do not even ask the actual author of a phrase he used.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:17 pm**

One can't have a purpose unless they are being used as a means toward some end.

Since there's no god, you can't have a purpose from that guy. This is was Sartre meant with his existence precedes essence thing; there's no third party to determine what you are... no idea or platonic form of 'human' held in the mind of some god. But other people can give you a purpose by using you somehow.

The purpose you have for 'yourself' is the idea of a future state you want to be in at some present moment. You can have a purpose to be something, do something, have something, or be somewhere. That's about it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:27 pm**

promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:17 pm One can't have a purpose unless they are being used as a means toward some end.

Since there's no god, you can't have a purpose from that guy. This is was Sartre meant with his existence precedes essence thing; there's no third party to determine what you are... no idea or platonic form of 'human' held in the mind of some god. But other people can give you a purpose by using you somehow.

The purpose you have for 'yourself' is the idea of a future state you want to be in at some present moment. You can have a purpose to be something, do something, have something, or be somewhere. That's about it.

So, you eyes have no purpose, your ears have no purpose, etc., culminating in a mind which has no purpose.

You cannot spot a self referential fallacy when it is biting you in the ass. That, my friend, is the peak of stupidity.
Simple English Grammar, a thing is either literal or metaphorical. Learn basic grammar.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:33 pm**

promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:17 pm

Eventually the purpose is properly living your last day. Proper living is living how you always thought you should be living. Your last day is unknown.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:39 pm**

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:33 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:17 pm
Eventually the purpose is properly living your last day. Proper living is living how you always thought you should be living. Your last day is unknown.

What may be predicated of any thing is wholly determined by the definition of that thing. So, the sentence is gibberish.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:43 pm**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:39 pm
Walker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:33 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:17 pm
Eventually the purpose is properly living your last day. Proper living is living how you always thought you should be living. Your last day is unknown.
What may be predicated of any thing is wholly determined by the definition of that thing. So, the sentence is gibberish.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that too much. Proper living varies from person to person. I knew a Depression-era old timer who said that at some point in his life he decided to start living like a millionaire, even though he didn’t have a million. It changed his attitude and he died with money in the bank. Great advice.

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:47 pm**

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:43 pm
Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:39 pm
Walker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:33 pm
Eventually the purpose is properly living your last day. Proper living is living how you always thought you should be living. Your last day is unknown.
What may be predicated of any thing is wholly determined by the definition of that thing. So, the sentence is gibberish.
Oh, I wouldn't worry about that too much. Proper living varies from person to person. I knew a Depression-era old timer who said that at some point in his life he decided to start living like a millionaire, even though he didn’t have a million. It changed his attitude and he died with money in the bank. Great advice.

So, you talk like a judge or lawyer, who insist on the idea that people are entitled to what they have not earned. Which only means, they could not even understand the Constitution which they vowed to protect, and thus, destroy it.

I strongly object to people who believe that they have a right to believe in anything they want. Wanting to insert their own delusions into other people's words, because they are too stupid and lazy to actually learn to be literate, is actually sub human.

Posted: **Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:01 am**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:50 pmSo, you are claiming your design is not biological.

No, numpty.

I'm not stating we aren't biological,
which is why I didn't give a definition of biological.

I'm stating we are not designed,
which is why I gave a definition of design.

You need the definition of design,
because you're using it incorrectly.
You applied the word to something that it doesn't apply to.

Design: To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect / To have as a goal or purpose; intend.

Natural selection isn't designing anything.
It's producing a bias between that which is present,
and that which was present, and is present no more.

It explains what traits are selected for,
and why those traits are more frequent.
Because organisms without those traits,
are outcompeted by organisms with those traits.

Thus, an abundance of those traits emerge.

Natural selection shapes us - molds us -,
but not through intent or design,
not with any objective.

Beyond the bias that living being apply to the world,
it is not inherently good or bad if a being survives or goes extinct.
If a species goes extinct, that is not a failure or success -
these are value judgements which are projected onto it.
If a species survives, that is not a failure or success -
these are value judgements which are projected onto it.

We are not designed.

-

Is it starting to click in your brain yet?

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:13 pmBy biological design

Wrong.

Posted: **Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:03 am**

Phil8659 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:47 pm

Goodness gracious, yer honor. That’s not quite the point. The old timer began to live like a millionaire, which means he dropped his anxiety over money. He paid his bills as usual, and the money he would have usually put in the bank, or let roll over into savings, he spent on some vacations, clothes, a car, things he had denied himself with his money prudence that amounted to anxiety. Took up some charitable causes. It's not that he spent a lot on himself, but rather, he began to spend on himself at all. To live like a millionaire is to think like a millionaire, which is to be rather congenial and generous and really, without a care in the world.

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