Philosophy Now Forum

I am here in hopes of finding kindred spirits, others who at every level of reflection have come to bet their life, their hours and minutes, on the premise that searching for the truth is profitable. Profitable for, over-all, joy, even hilarity. Happiness, which as a scientist studying birds selecting habitats, I came to believe is an actual emotion built into decisive organisms to tell them when they have made the best (most adaptive, most fit) choice. But the human niche is assessing useful truth about "fitness" using various strategies, and I hope this "habitat" contains the social interactions effective for this search. Starting with solutions to the Diogenes problem, widespread disinformation in certain social settings.

Been at this awhile, am willing to consider quite exotic thoughts for their truth content (every statement reveals something usefully true, which is good), think humor and truth are friends, am grieved and angered by many current events, believe philosophy without hypocrisy or cowardice plays a critical role (necessary if not sufficient) in fixing what is wrong.

Garfield said the the truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. Let's seek comfort in that misery, going after uncomfortable, even unbearable truths. Told "slant" of course.

But have you never regretted having learned about something that you would rather forget later on but couldn´t because your memory was so good ?

Vita festinat. = Life goes on quickly.

If you spend your time looking at the ugly face of human nature you may miss something delightful, because you cannot pay attention to more than one thing during a specific period of time.

"Every statement reveals something usufully true."

Even if someone states a lie ?
You can often hear a lie by the tone of the voice and the circumstances.
But a written lie is much more difficult to detect.

At least the fact that someone makes a certain assertion is true.
Even if you do not know whether the speaker is convinced of the truth of the assertion or not.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Groktruth.
I hope you will find some kindred spirits here. I am not going to make any suggestions, however, since I am not the match-maker of the forum.

One last question for today:

Does your name reveal or suggest something ?
I have found the word "grog" but not "grok".

duszek wrote:But have you never regretted having learned about something that you would rather forget later on but couldn´t because your memory was so good ?

Vita festinat. = Life goes on quickly.

If you spend your time looking at the ugly face of human nature you may miss something delightful, because you cannot pay attention to more than one thing during a specific period of time.

An interesting question! I'm such a knowledge-o-phile, and delight in the challenge of putting any new information into it's proper place in my world-view. So I rarely have to say, "I'd rather not go there." in a conversation, although I have had others say it to me.

As to the ugly face of human nature, I agree that it merits only cursory attention. My definition of meditation is to get in the middle of as many points of view as possible. So, I work at skimming thoughts, focusing on right or good or useful ones. There are so many ways to be wrong, but so few to be right.

G.

duszek wrote:"Every statement reveals something usufully true."

Even if someone states a lie ?
You can often hear a lie by the tone of the voice and the circumstances.
But a written lie is much more difficult to detect.

At least the fact that someone makes a certain assertion is true.
Even if you do not know whether the speaker is convinced of the truth of the assertion or not.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Groktruth.
I hope you will find some kindred spirits here. I am not going to make any suggestions, however, since I am not the match-maker of the forum.

Most lies contain some truth, and then the lie part reveals much about the liar. Since liars tend to listen to each other, you can get a social trend. But, as you note, you have to learn discernment, detecting BS and other lies. That's a useful skill, and ought to be taught more in philosophy courses. There's a little book by a Princeton philosopher title "On B*******" that's a good start.

I recognize four kinds of liars: malicious (e.g. Bernie Madoff), cowardly (Tiger Woods), white (global warming scientists), and naive (Madoff's customers who told their friends to invest with him). Most are in the last category, believing what they want to hear from malicious liars and passing it on. As I say, it's a useful study.

"Grok" is a word invented by Robert Heinlein (Stranger in a Strange Land), which recovers the original sense of the work "know" (As in "Adam knew his wife.") but preserving the broader implications. "Know" versus "know about." Know through intimate experience together. I sandwich reason between in my face experience, before I think of it as true.

So when Socrates told people: "Know thyself", you could say instead: "Grok thyself" ?

And "Groktruth" means "very deep truth" ? As opposed to superficial truth ?

duszek wrote:So when Socrates told people: "Know thyself", you could say instead: "Grok thyself" ?

And "Groktruth" means "very deep truth" ? As opposed to superficial truth ?

"Grok thyself" is apt. "Very deep" is a quantiative measure, though, while "grok" is a qualitative specifier. In science, for example, reason can be squished between observations and experiments. It's one thing to "know the argument" and quite another to experience those arguments playing out in memorable events. The latter is "grokking." To "Grok" truth is to take a "true" statement into the field, to try to live it out. Live truth, don't just know about it, to enhance your understanding of it.

So if a trustworthy person tells me that an apple tastes good, I know that it tastes good.
But only if I eat it slowly myself, I grok that it tastes good.

Could you say that the difference between the two is like between knowing something theoretically and experiencing something personally ?

But how about things that we know sub-consciously ? Things that we do not realize that we know.
Do we know them or do we grok them ?
They were acquired due to personal experience but did not get into our conscious minds.

The theologan seeks to know God, while the mystic seeks to grok God. AP

Is there anything that you grok, another_paradox ?

By way of an example ...

Subconscious knowledge, which I prefer to call heart-knowledge, is essential to grokking truth. The vast reserves of the subconscious have got to be in harmony with the on-going conscious input. It's actually, I believe, one of the main souces of experiential molding of theoretical knowledge. Personal knowledge, I think is the official philosophical term. (I forget the author of the book by that name...)

Thanks for the question. Took me a while dipping into my "personal knowledge" to grok my own understanding, which was enhanced considerably. Must spend more time submitting insights for subconscious review!

You are looking for Michael Polanyi, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Polanyi

Could the subconscious knowledge be influenced by conmen and other skillful manipulators ?
Those who write the commercials, for example, in order to make us desire things that they want to sell to us.

Hi,
I really like the said topic.Thank you for the info;friend can be seen in anywhere,can be found in any corner,but how can you be friend?In what way will your destiny be together?Whoever is he/she no one will be our friend...but Jesus!how to hypnotize people