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King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:53 am
by Maia
I've just been reading some news reports about the King, who has been meeting with the Canadian prime minister, and wants to play an active role in the current escalating crisis over Ukraine, and also President Trump's oft-stated wish, however seriously intended or not, to annex Canada, which is one of the King's realms, of course. I think the idea is for the King to somehow leverage his influence, if he has any, on behalf of Canada, in Trump's upcoming state visit to the UK. And similarly to try and persuade Trump to back the UK's stance on Ukraine.
This all sounds very convoluted, and the warmongering coming from some quarters very worrying. I really like Canada, having been there three times, to Toronto and Hamilton, Ontario, for family holidays, when I was 12 and 13. I found the people really open and friendly, but it seems that their current political leadership, exactly like ours, is intent on sending troops into the current conflict, which can't be a good sign.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:38 pm
by Impenitent
when the European countries start sending troops to Ukraine, NATO dissolves
-Imp
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:48 pm
by Maia
Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:38 pm
when the European countries start sending troops to Ukraine, NATO dissolves
-Imp
I suspect that's going to happen anyway. Keir Starmer seems to be riding high on a wave of public support, at the moment, but when the body bags start coming home, that will probably change. The similarities to the start of the First World War are quite uncanny. This time, however, we seem to be allied with the Germans against the Russians, unlike the traditional arrangement for world wars.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:55 pm
by phyllo
... it seems that their current political leadership, exactly like ours, is intent on sending troops into the current conflict, which can't be a good sign.
The only troops Canada is willing to send are peacekeepers in the event that a peace is established.
Russia has rejected peacekeepers outright so it's not likely to happen any time soon.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 4:56 pm
by FlashDangerpants
We must never permit the sausage-fingered decorative monarch to shake hands twith the pudgy little stubby fingers of the new American tyrant, nothing good comes from reminding Trump he's smaller than he wishes you to think.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:20 pm
by Flannel Jesus
Is it "war mongering" when it's helping a nation defend itself? Maybe it is, but it's not like they're talking about STARTING a war, Russia did that.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:50 pm
by Maia
Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:20 pm
Is it "war mongering" when it's helping a nation defend itself? Maybe it is, but it's not like they're talking about STARTING a war, Russia did that.
Maybe that's true, and I don't wish to try and defend Putin, but it's also true that western leaders promised Russia that NATO wouldn't expand to the east, but both it, and the EU, have done exactly that. There are also stories of persecution of Russian minority populations in Ukraine, but they might be propaganda, plus a US backed coup, and so on. The point is, that it's not all so cut and dried, and is it really any of our business to get involved?
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:16 pm
by phyllo
The point is, that it's not all so cut and dried, and is it really any of our business to get involved?
If you were walking down the street and you came across someone getting a beating, would you spend a lot of time thinking about that question?
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:26 pm
by phyllo
.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:29 pm
by promethean75
Putin went wrong here: you can't use the fact that NATO started expanding more east than 'promised' at some earlier point. That's not enough of a reason to invade Ukraine. So what if Ukraine joins NATO. Tough shit. What Ukraine does on and with its own territory is nobody's business but Ukraine's and whoever they choose to do business with.
You gotta wait until your neighbor crosses his border into your territory before you declare war on 'em. I mean fuckin A fifth graders learned that in history class.
Now, if Putin's problem is that Russia no longer owns Ukraine, that was established before he took power, and it was fully legitimate... despite Russian nationals in the eastern most regions fighting against the Ukrainians. Again, tough shit. Putin knows how it works. You take territory by force and diplomacy. It becomes a country when enough people say it's one. If you don't like it, gtfo or fight to take it back. But don't ack like you're the victim of some sinister NATO scheme to stop you from becoming the fantasy tzar you've always wanted to be ever since you saw that portrait of Illich Krontonsky Milakovovich whatever over your uncle's mantle. Next thing you know, you're watching old American westerns like Kim Jung and driving four wheelers 'n shit. This is Russia, dude. Not hollywood. Your people are pissed but you got 'em so scared they can't do nuthin. What we need is a Russian Che Guevara to sneak into the Kremlin and poison your ass like you did homeboy earlier.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:31 pm
by Maia
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:16 pm
The point is, that it's not all so cut and dried, and is it really any of our business to get involved?
If were walking down the street and you came across someone getting a beating, would you spend a lot of time thinking about that question?
I don't know what I'd do in such a situation, but I'm not at all sure what I'd be able to do to help, anyway. Make a quick exit and call the police, perhaps?
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:33 pm
by promethean75
What kind of an asshole puts the Pussy Galore chicks in prison, anyway? That's like the greatest party-foul ever committed by a politician.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:42 pm
by Maia
promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:29 pm
Putin went wrong here: you can't use the fact that NATO started expanding more east than 'promised' at some earlier point. That's not enough of a reason to invade Ukraine. So what if Ukraine joins NATO. Tough shit. What Ukraine does on and with its own territory is nobody's business but Ukraine's and whoever they choose to do business with.
You gotta wait until your neighbor crosses his border into your territory before you declare war on 'em. I mean fuckin A fifth graders learned that in history class.
Now, if Putin's problem is that Russia no longer owns Ukraine, that was established before he took power, and it was fully legitimate... despite Russian nationals in the eastern most regions fighting against the Ukrainians. Again, tough shit. Putin knows how it works. You take territory by force and diplomacy. It becomes a country when enough people say it's one. If you don't like it, gtfo or fight to take it back. But don't ack like you're the victim of some sinister NATO scheme to stop you from becoming the fantasy tzar you've always wanted to be ever since you saw that portrait of Illich Krontonsky Milakovovich whatever over your uncle's mantle. Next thing you know, you're watching old American westerns like Kim Jung and driving four wheelers 'n shit. This is Russia, dude. Not hollywood. Your people are pissed but you got 'em so scared they can't do nuthin. What we need is a Russian Che Guevara to sneak into the Kremlin and poison your ass like you did homeboy earlier.
Maybe I'm too much of a historian to not be very concerned by all this, and the pattern is very clear. Next step, whipping up a load of jingoism. And in the particular case of Starmer, he wouldn't be the first deeply unpopular leader who felt that a nice little war would do wonders for his popularity. Not to mention the economy, and there are already stories of a massive boost, there.
I'm no fan of Putin, though, and he probably felt exactly the same, too, about a nice little war. But the fact that the war has already dragged on for so long has shown up the Russian military for how bad it really is. Still, he always has nukes to fall back on, if all else fails.
So yes, I agree. It was wrong of Putin to invade, there's no doubt about that. But is it our responsibility to put boots on the ground and planes in the air, as Starmer has promised, given all the risks? Surely there's a better way?
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:50 pm
by phyllo
Maia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:31 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:16 pm
The point is, that it's not all so cut and dried, and is it really any of our business to get involved?
If were walking down the street and you came across someone getting a beating, would you spend a lot of time thinking about that question?
I don't know what I'd do in such a situation, but I'm not at all sure what I'd be able to do to help, anyway. Make a quick exit and call the police, perhaps?
Yes, you might not be able to do much by yourself, but I doubt that you would think that it's none of your business and that nothing ought to be done.
Your moral compass would still work.
Re: King to stick his oar in
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:56 pm
by Maia
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:50 pm
Maia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:31 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:16 pm
If were walking down the street and you came across someone getting a beating, would you spend a lot of time thinking about that question?
I don't know what I'd do in such a situation, but I'm not at all sure what I'd be able to do to help, anyway. Make a quick exit and call the police, perhaps?
Yes, you might not be able to do much by yourself, but I doubt that you would think that it's none of your business and that nothing ought to be done.
Your moral compass would still work.
I agree. I would indeed still think it was bad, even if there was nothing I could reasonably do. I would also, if I could, try and get the two parties to the fight to stop, and talk about whatever it was that had caused it, and reach a compromise.