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A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:15 pm
by K1Barin
From the discussions I have heard, some atheists say we are our brains, and that is what our self is, our brain as a whole. On the other side some theists say we are more than just our brains, there is more to our selves than only our brains. What I am presenting as a self here is a very small piece of our brain, and I am myself a theist. So this maybe different from what you have ever heard about self until now.

We know we have a body as us. But if we loose our hand for example, we are still ourselves. Same is true about other organs like ear, eye, leg etc. But if our brain gets transplanted to some other body, we change to a person in that body. That's why some believe we are our brains as ourselves, our brains as a whole. I am differing in this issue, because our brains can get damaged partly, and we still would be our selves. For example we may loose our sight from something hitting our head, and it would be just like loosing our eyes, and we are still ourselves. So we should be something inside our brains. Then the issue becomes how much inside of our brains are we? We are the center part of our brain or a neuron inside the center part, or a molecule inside that neuron, or an atom inside that molecule, or ... a fundamental particle that is next to nothing in there? That's what I believe what we are as our selves, a fundamental particle deep in the center of our brain.

After all fundamental particles are not breakable. There is no matter smaller than a fundamental particle. But fundamental particles can do things, at least and at most one thing as what our selves can do. At least one thing we are capable of doing as ourselves, because we have choice. And at most one thing we are capable of doing as ourselves, because we are unbreakable as a fundamental particle. If we would be able to do more than one thing, we would be breakable into smaller pieces that at the final point each are only capable of doing one thing. It is like the theory of machines, that a machine can be broken up into pieces that each has only one degree of freedom. Of course we are not machines, but as a fundamental particle we only can have one kind of deed as our fundamental choice, our true selves' only degree of freedom. Otherwise we are not yet a fundamental particle, and we can still be smaller.

I advise you not to rush to what deed that fundamental choice is. Because one's fundamental choice should be able to choose itself. Because if one's only capability is incapable of acting on itself, then that one is nothing. Again, if you are with me until now, I emphasize don't rush to what deed that fundamental choice is.

The fundamental choice, I choose for myself, and myself or somebody in my head asked me "is that true in itself?" and I happily found that true, meaning it can choose itself, was and still is "Giving Thanks". Because you see, if one is only capable of giving thanks, everything should be goods to her/him from God. And if everything is going to be goods to me from God, it is itself the biggest good from God, which of course I can give thanks for.

I chose "giving thanks" because of my beliefs and faith, and thanks to God that it was choosable by itself. If you followed me to this point, It was my responsibility to suggest you a fundamental choice that is choosable by itself, but if you don't like giving thanks as your fundamental choice, who knows there may be other choices that are choosable by themselves.

As the final remark, l can be broken up into even fundamental particles, it would be painful, but when all that is left of me is a fundamental particle, I feel like I am still able to start a being by myself, by giving thanks to capability of giving thanks, and get going from there. Yeah I am saying if nothing is left for me but myself, I can still have a life to live. But don't think I am after being all by myself. My life is giving thanks, and for that I should be thankful for all the goods there are. And I love giving thanks and living with everything in the universe, and giving thanks for them all is so much more lovely to me.
:)

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:01 am
by Veritas Aequitas
The fact is, there is an empirically supported evolutionary process that resulted in the emergence of living things, animal, primates and humans.

All living things are evolved with an evolutionary default of a sense of externalness to facilitate survival, i.e. search for food, spouse and look out for threats.
Non-humans don't do it, but the majority of humans due to an endowment of self-awareness [necessary for some higher purpose of survival] that drive humans to adopt this sense of externalness as an ideology of Philosophical Realism.
Philosophical realism... —is the view that a certain kind of thing (ranging widely from abstract objects like numbers to moral statements to the physical world itself) has mind-independent existence, i.e. that it exists even in the absence of any mind perceiving it or that its existence is not just a mere appearance in the eye of the beholder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism
It is from this fundamental philosophical realism that drive the majority to believe an absolutely mind-independent self that exists even after physical death.
And to ensure the existence of this mind-independent self that would not end up as a lost soul, the majority has to invent an absolutely mind-independent all powerful God [theism].
These sort of ideological thinking has contributed to much evils to humanity since they first emerged.

In addition, Kant had demonstrated to insist on a constitutive substantial soul [mind-independent I-AM] and God is chasing after illusions, thus delusional, albeit useful illusion to soothe the inherent existential crisis.

Instead of speculating beyond the empirical world, what is most realistic is to infer the existence of an empirically-linked-self from empirical evidences that can be verified and justified via the science-biology-psychological framework and system reinforced with rationality and critical thinking.
This is not an easy advancement because there is a need to bear with a cold turkey phase which most majority of philosophical realists and theists do not have the capacity to go through.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 5:27 pm
by K1Barin
In my post a clear description of self spiritually, philosophically and even physically is presented. One can attend self even physically according to my definition.

But I can't find a clear definition of self to attend in your description. Or maybe it is more complicated than I can understand with my poor English.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 11:01 pm
by Impenitent
a self is how you are defined

the question is who decides

-Imp

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:17 am
by popeye1945
Definition of self -- An anonymous living constitution in the process of experiencing, and through which then finds its I.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:22 am
by Age
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:17 am Definition of self -- An anonymous living constitution in the process of experiencing, and through which then finds its I.
If the 'I' is found, and/or known, then HOW is 'It' 'anonymous', EXACTLY?

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am
by popeye1945
Age wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:22 am
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:17 am Definition of self -- An anonymous living constitution in the process of experiencing, and through which then finds its I.
If the 'I' is found, and/or known, then HOW is 'It' 'anonymous', EXACTLY?
Life comes into this world as a constitution without an identity and does not gain a sense of identity until it has experienced its environmental context. The self amounts to a highly functional illusion. When one dies, what dies is how one thinks and feels about being in the world. In a sense when one dies, a world dies with the deceased.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:51 pm
by K1Barin
When you describe a self, you are going to reside with it, live with it, and see and preceive yourself as that. In life our body changes all the time. If we can find ourselves as something stable that we are and we going to be, and we are happy with this self, it is a peace of mind I suggest.

I find myself as a undivisable piece in universe (fundamental particle), and I am happy with it. At least I am something, that is well defined, and I can stay that way no matter what happens and be happy. And being less than that is like to I never have existed. Even God can not create me again, because it would be a new creation, and it is not me together with all the choices I have made. Then I am not going to be unhappy ever, because I am never going to exist to feel that I have not existed. Anyway I am happy as I have defined my self, and this way I don't have that many worries.

Again defining your self as something that is and is going to be which you are happy with, is something I suggest.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:40 pm
by Age
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am
Age wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:22 am
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:17 am Definition of self -- An anonymous living constitution in the process of experiencing, and through which then finds its I.
If the 'I' is found, and/or known, then HOW is 'It' 'anonymous', EXACTLY?
Life comes into this world as a constitution without an identity and does not gain a sense of identity until it has experienced its environmental context.
If 'you', the one, here, known as "popeye", would like to be fully understood, then 'you' will have to explain what a few of the words that 'you' use, here, mean, and/or referring to, exactly. For example,

To begin with, what do you mean by the word, 'Life', the words, 'the world', and the words, 'Life comes into this world'?

As for 'the rest' I will leave for another day.

I suggest you LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I SAID, and WROTE, and USED above, here, and REPLY TO them, ONLY.
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am The self amounts to a highly functional illusion.
What 'self'?

Who and/or what is A 'self', EXACTLY?

And, who and/or what, EXACTLY, is this so-called 'self' a so-called 'highly functional illusion' TO?

Also, HOW can an 'illusion', itself, be 'functional'. let alone 'highly functional'?

'Highly functional' in relation to who and/or what, EXACTLY?
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am When one dies, what dies is how one thinks and feels about being in the world. In a sense when one dies, a world dies with the deceased.
Do 'you' actually LOOK AT 'the ACTUAL words' that you WRITE, and USE?

If yes, then do you ACTUALLY CONSIDER what they MEAN and/or are REFERRING TO, EXACTLY?

For example, when 'you' WRITE and CLAIM, 'When one dies', then who and/or what, EXACTLY, is the 'one', which 'you' CLAIMS 'dies'?

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 3:25 am
by popeye1945
Age wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:40 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am
Age wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:22 am

If the 'I' is found, and/or known, then HOW is 'It' 'anonymous', EXACTLY?
Life comes into this world as a constitution without an identity and does not gain a sense of identity until it has experienced its environmental context.
If 'you', the one, here, known as "popeye", would like to be fully understood, then 'you' will have to explain what a few of the words that 'you' use, here, mean, and/or referring to, exactly. For example,

To begin with, what do you mean by the word, 'Life', the words, 'the world', and the words, 'Life comes into this world'?

As for 'the rest' I will leave for another day.

I suggest you LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I SAID, and WROTE, and USED above, here, and REPLY TO them, ONLY.
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am The self amounts to a highly functional illusion.
What 'self'?

Who and/or what is A 'self', EXACTLY?

And, who and/or what, EXACTLY, is this so-called 'self' a so-called 'highly functional illusion' TO?

Also, HOW can an 'illusion', itself, be 'functional'. let alone 'highly functional'?

'Highly functional' in relation to who and/or what, EXACTLY?
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am When one dies, what dies is how one thinks and feels about being in the world. In a sense when one dies, a world dies with the deceased.
Do 'you' actually LOOK AT 'the ACTUAL words' that you WRITE, and USE?

If yes, then do you ACTUALLY CONSIDER what they MEAN and/or are REFERRING TO, EXACTLY?

For example, when 'you' WRITE and CLAIM, 'When one dies', then who and/or what, EXACTLY, is the 'one', which 'you' CLAIMS 'dies'?
You are a funny guy age, have a good one!!

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:38 pm
by Age
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 3:25 am
Age wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:40 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am

Life comes into this world as a constitution without an identity and does not gain a sense of identity until it has experienced its environmental context.
If 'you', the one, here, known as "popeye", would like to be fully understood, then 'you' will have to explain what a few of the words that 'you' use, here, mean, and/or referring to, exactly. For example,

To begin with, what do you mean by the word, 'Life', the words, 'the world', and the words, 'Life comes into this world'?

As for 'the rest' I will leave for another day.

I suggest you LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I SAID, and WROTE, and USED above, here, and REPLY TO them, ONLY.
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am The self amounts to a highly functional illusion.
What 'self'?

Who and/or what is A 'self', EXACTLY?

And, who and/or what, EXACTLY, is this so-called 'self' a so-called 'highly functional illusion' TO?

Also, HOW can an 'illusion', itself, be 'functional'. let alone 'highly functional'?

'Highly functional' in relation to who and/or what, EXACTLY?
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:57 am When one dies, what dies is how one thinks and feels about being in the world. In a sense when one dies, a world dies with the deceased.
Do 'you' actually LOOK AT 'the ACTUAL words' that you WRITE, and USE?

If yes, then do you ACTUALLY CONSIDER what they MEAN and/or are REFERRING TO, EXACTLY?

For example, when 'you' WRITE and CLAIM, 'When one dies', then who and/or what, EXACTLY, is the 'one', which 'you' CLAIMS 'dies'?
You are a funny guy age, have a good one!!
Once again a series of CLARIFYING QUESTIONS were ASKED so that 'the other' can be BETTER UNDERSTOOD, but not even a single ANSWER nor a single bit of CLARITY is provided.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:41 pm
by Age
There is really only One 'Self' in Life.

ALL of the other PRESUMED 'selves' are just PRETENSION people pretending to be some thing that they are NOT.

And, 'those people' will NOT DISCUSS 'this', WITH 'Me', for FEAR of the IRREFUTABLE Truth coming-to-light, here.

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:31 pm
by K1Barin
Age wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:41 pm There is really only One 'Self' in Life.

ALL of the other PRESUMED 'selves' are just PRETENSION people pretending to be some thing that they are NOT.
Hello Age, what do you think about my idea of self as an undivisable part of matter (fundamental particle) ?

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:35 pm
by K1Barin
After the issue of self as a fundamental particle, I want to get to issue of self awareness in humans before getting to machines.

If you have defined a self, what is self awareness?

Re: A Suggestion For What A SELF Is

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:15 pm
by Age
K1Barin wrote: Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:35 pm After the issue of self as a fundamental particle, I want to get to issue of self awareness in humans before getting to machines.
If there is 'an issue' of self as a fundamental particle, then that is 'a sign' that some thing is not quite right and/or needs correcting.
K1Barin wrote: Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:35 pm If you have defined a self, what is self awareness?
'Self-awareness' is just when 'one' has gotten/evolved to a stage of being able to answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly, and Correctly. In other words once 'one' has been able to answer that question in 'the way' that EVERY one could agree with and accept it, then knowing thy Self, and thus Self awareness, itself, has finally been reached, achieved, and/or obtained.