You cannot make "Choices" in Hard Determinism

[Wizard22]

Presumably because some entity (God perhaps?) knows, in-advance, what you would have chosen if you ever could have options, which you don't.

This 'God-Entity' is an inevitability, a Final Conclusion to Hard Determinism. All roads lead to It / God / Fate / Whatever this Absolute Ideal could be.

Hard Determinists do not believe in things such as "options, choices, decisions, freedom" Etc. All of these are self-imposed delusions of the human brain. Any and all experiences of freedom, are Illusions. To the Hard Determinist, I presume and guess that they must believe, the human brain cooks up these false "Choices" as a way to maintain self-identity, self-control, and even more fundamental delusions of Autonomy. "You", if there could exist such a thing as a You, have no actual control over your body or mind. You cannot in fact "move left, right, up, down, forward, back". Any direction you move, is Pre-Determined.

Therefore, you can only ever move 'One' direction, forever. All living organisms, only move this One direction, into the Pre-Determined Future.

There is only "One Fate" (Fatalism) to the Hard Determinists.

[Flannel Jesus]

Presumably because some entity (God perhaps?) knows, in-advance, what you would have chosen if you ever could have options, which you don't.

Determinism isn't about any entity knowing stuff. If determinism is the case (I'm not saying it is the case, but if its the case), it has nothing to do with anybody knowing anything.

[Wizard22]

Determinism isn't about any entity knowing stuff. If determinism is the case (I'm not saying it is the case, but if its the case), it has nothing to do with anybody knowing anything.

How?

Isn't knowledge (and memory) based on events that either precede or proceed from one-another? How could anybody tell the difference, without 'Determinism'?

[Fairy]

Determinism isn't about any entity knowing stuff. If determinism is the case (I'm not saying it is the case, but if its the case), it has nothing to do with anybody knowing anything.

How?

Isn't knowledge (and memory) based on events that either precede or proceed from one-another? How could anybody tell the difference, without 'Determinism'?

You are quite right of course, the very fact that you are aware you are aware informs consciousness is fundamentally the controller of action, and that you are this consciousness.

Consciousness is the free will.

Consciousness being the fundamental controlling of the nature or outcome of something. Like walking for example, walking cannot happen until there is a determination to direct one leg to move forward. There is no movement without intention, which is just another word for choice.
Choice between the legs standing still or moving forward is a conscious event. You are that consciousness.

[Flannel Jesus]

Determinism isn't about any entity knowing stuff. If determinism is the case (I'm not saying it is the case, but if its the case), it has nothing to do with anybody knowing anything.

How?

It just isn't, it has nothing to do with it. Whether determinism is the case isn't reliant on any being knowing the future.

[Wizard22]

You are quite right of course, the very fact that you are aware you are aware informs consciousness is fundamentally the controller of action, and that you are this consciousness.

Consciousness is the free will.

Consciousness being the fundamental controlling of the nature or outcome of something. Like walking for example, walking cannot happen until there is a determination to direct one leg to move forward. There is no movement without intention, which is just another word for choice.
Choice between the legs standing still or moving forward is a conscious event. You are that consciousness.

Interesting... Hard Determinists seem to believe they have that 'Intent' on lock-down, or that it could only ever be (Pre)-Determined.

It's an easy presumption to make--that Existence must always and only be 'One' way...

[Wizard22]

It just isn't, it has nothing to do with it. Whether determinism is the case isn't reliant on any being knowing the future.

Determinism doesn't rely on the Present proceeding from the Past???

Isn't Determinism based on 'logic' and 'rational' procession of events, that one thing MUST and ONLY follows from the other?

And the prior thing is the Cause?

[Fairy]

You are quite right of course, the very fact that you are aware you are aware informs consciousness is fundamentally the controller of action, and that you are this consciousness.

Consciousness is the free will.

Consciousness being the fundamental controlling of the nature or outcome of something. Like walking for example, walking cannot happen until there is a determination to direct one leg to move forward. There is no movement without intention, which is just another word for choice.
Choice between the legs standing still or moving forward is a conscious event. You are that consciousness.

Interesting... Hard Determinists seem to believe they have that 'Intent' on lock-down, or that it could only ever be (Pre)-Determined.

It's an easy presumption to make--that Existence must always and only be 'One' way...

MONAD

It's one taste. Appearing as the many.

[Fairy]

It just isn't, it has nothing to do with it. Whether determinism is the case isn't reliant on any being knowing the future.

Determinism doesn't rely on the Present proceeding from the Past???

Isn't Determinism based on 'logic' and 'rational' procession of events, that one thing MUST and ONLY follows from the other?

And the prior thing is the Cause?

The future can only be predicated on the past; which is only ever known /experienced NOW HERE.
Understanding the correlation between history and the future, highlights the idea that the past serves as a crucial reference point for predicting what lies ahead.
Cause is the effect in the instantaneous moment ''knowing'' arises. When awareness (latent) knows sensation; consciousness is born /known/ actualised, manifested.

Consciousness is a self-sustaining feedback loop, looping back on itself as and through the demand for knowledge, stored in memory, but only ever known now, always now.

Think.. klein bottle, or mobius loop, or the torus.

[Flannel Jesus]

It just isn't, it has nothing to do with it. Whether determinism is the case isn't reliant on any being knowing the future.

Determinism doesn't rely on the Present proceeding from the Past???

That's an entirely different thing than what you said before. The present proceeding from the past has nothing to do with any being in particular KNOWING exactly what's going to happen. You have to go into second order thoughts here. You're not making claims just about what's true, you're making claims about needing some being to KNOW something is true.

"The future follows from the past" is a distinct claim from "some being knows exactly what the future will be". Do you see the difference?

[Impenitent]

Hume is smiling...

of course there is no constant conjunction between events

-Imp

[LuckyR]

The thing is, in Hard Determinism while choice is an illusion, it's a completely invisible illusion. That is, it is such a perfect illusion that it is indistinguishable to humans from being complete and total reality. Therefore there is no difference and no downside to treating this illusion as reality (like every one of us does all day, every day).

[Wizard22]

That's an entirely different thing than what you said before. The present proceeding from the past has nothing to do with any being in particular KNOWING exactly what's going to happen. You have to go into second order thoughts here. You're not making claims just about what's true, you're making claims about needing some being to KNOW something is true.

"The future follows from the past" is a distinct claim from "some being knows exactly what the future will be". Do you see the difference?

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[Age]

Presumably because some entity (God perhaps?) knows, in-advance, what you would have chosen if you ever could have options, which you don't.

This 'God-Entity' is an inevitability, a Final Conclusion to Hard Determinism. All roads lead to It / God / Fate / Whatever this Absolute Ideal could be.

Hard Determinists do not believe in things such as "options, choices, decisions, freedom" Etc.

1. There are NO such things as so-called "hard determinits".

2. There is NO one that does not believe in things such as 'options, choices, decisions, nor freedom'.

Unless, OF COURSE, you want to INFORM 'us' of WHO 'they' ARE, EXACTLY.

All of these are self-imposed delusions of the human brain. Any and all experiences of freedom, are Illusions. To the Hard Determinist, I presume and guess that they must believe, the human brain cooks up these false "Choices" as a way to maintain self-identity, self-control, and even more fundamental delusions of Autonomy.

AND, are ALL of 'your' PRESUMPTIONS and GUESSES True, Right, Accurate, and/or Correct?

"You", if there could exist such a thing as a You, have no actual control over your body or mind.

LOL 'We' have ANOTHER one, here, who BELIEVES that you human beings HAVE 'your' OWN bodies AND 'your' OWN minds.

You cannot in fact "move left, right, up, down, forward, back". Any direction you move, is Pre-Determined.

These two sentences, OBVIOUSLY, do NOT necessarily 'logically' belong together.

Therefore, you can only ever move 'One' direction, forever. All living organisms, only move this One direction, into the Pre-Determined Future.

There is only "One Fate" (Fatalism) to the Hard Determinists.

This one, OBVIOUSLY, has MISSED some thing VERY IMPORTANT, here.

[Age]

Determinism isn't about any entity knowing stuff. If determinism is the case (I'm not saying it is the case, but if its the case), it has nothing to do with anybody knowing anything.

How?

Isn't knowledge (and memory) based on events that either precede or proceed from one-another? How could anybody tell the difference, without 'Determinism'?

You are quite right of course, the very fact that you are aware you are aware informs consciousness is fundamentally the controller of action, and that you are this consciousness.

Consciousness is the free will.

Consciousness being the fundamental controlling of the nature or outcome of something. Like walking for example, walking cannot happen until there is a determination to direct one leg to move forward. There is no movement without intention, which is just another word for choice.

So, the 'movement' of rocks, down a hill, for example, does not happen without intention, right?

Choice between the legs standing still or moving forward is a conscious event. You are that consciousness.